to worry about my friend and her children?

[ChocDee]

Now from the start I should say that I do not have children - eventhough I am really rather desperate!

My friend has 3 children, one DS 16, and DT 7.

I have worried about her drinking for quite some time, and her focus on her husband who is probably suffering from PTS to be honest and I know that he cannot be easy to live with.

I have known her for a couple of years and for a long long time I was the one she confided in about her marriage - everyday. I listened, gave sympathy and tried to give as much advice as I possibly could. Gave her numbers for counselling which she said that they both definately would do etc etc (another friend has also given her numbers for therapy etc). But she never does anything about any of it! And it's not the cost either - they would get individual and couple counselling for free. They both agree that they need it, it's a good idea yadda, yadda yadda...

She is on antidepressants (as is her husband) but both of them are still drinking rather a lot.

Last summer I took the bull by the horns. Told her that I suspected that she was becoming alcohol dependant (she said that she had to drink as it was easier to jolly along her husband that way) and that she should stop trying so hard making her husband happy and concentrate on her children instead.

All 3 of her children are absolutely gorgeous, but from what I can see it is her eldest son who does most of the parenting to be honest. He spends time with them, plays with them, puts them to bed and gently reprimands them when they do wrong. They are extremely well behaved behcause they are very wary of their father.

Well, she took what I had to say on board (though of course did not make any changes) but I have not seen much of her lately.

Now it seems that it is just getting worse. The oldest son confided in my friend about what has been going on.

Mum is now beginning to drink in the mornings sometimes (I have already have had her hiding empty bottles at my house).

She is a SAHM, but does not do the mornings at all - stays in bed until after they have left for school. At times when her husband is away she will do it - but drops them at the school bus stop an hour early and leaves them.

She never cooks, the only hot meal they get is school dinners.

All she does is complain and she NEVER spends time with them or has days out etc etc.

The oldest son is about to leave home - where will that leave the DTs?

As I said. I am not a mother, but surely being a parent should involve some time to have just fun together?

Oh I don't know. I do not know whether I should speak up again. I do not know whether I should not worry. I do not know whether I am just being an unfair judgey pants.

What do you think?

Oh and sorry that it is so long and I am sure - rather confusing!

Well she's going to be forced to change when the DS leaves home wont she?

Depressed people tend not to be up for 'fun time' do they?

She sounds like she's an alcoholic, rather than depressed (or perhaps both). Poor kids

Yeah, you are right. She is depressed and a lot of allowances needs to made for that.

And I guess it has been sneaking up on her - but I was there at the beginning, before the ADs. Trying to help as much as I could. But she did not do anything then and now it seems like she is hurtling down a downward spiral.

I just feel so sad for her and the entire family to be honest. And helpless...

So the way forward?

Leave it be and see if things improve once she HAS to take a more active role when her oldest DS leaves home - and the country!?

If she is not prepared to help herself I guess there is very little that I can actually do except to be there for her if she finally shouts out.

My best friend grew up in a house like that and tbh I think you need to act now not wait until the 16 year old leaves home for 2 reasons, firstly it will be affecting his studies and secondly he might not feel he is able to leave home knowing what could become of his siblings.
It's far too big a weight for a 16 year old to bear, something needs to be done now.

Are you in a position to give her any practical support as well as a shoulder to lean on? Could you take the twins for an afternoon on the odd occasion, or suggest some days out that you could all go to? You sound like a very caring friend but I'm not sure there's much you can do except be there when she needs you.

Thank you for your replies.

Oldest son is definately leaving. Despite being extremely bright and utterly charming he is failing at school. Parents say that he is lazy and that they will not support him in further education. Drove him down to the recruitment center and he has joined the Air Force... (Lets hope he does not end up suffering from PTS!)

We have had all three of them on various occasions when parents have gone away - trips to Paris, to Germany for haircuts, and for picking up puppies etc etc.

When they went to Paris they were supposed to be gone for 3 days, but phoned up and changed it abruptly to 4 days. The DTs cheered... When they got home the kids were not excited to see them at all.

All three of them go to their grandmother's during the holidays and other people often care for them as well over night.

I have suggested heaps of days out - but she always declines. I think she finds them too stressful.

Well quite honestly they need a boot up the arse I've read parents on here being picked apart by SS for less, a 16 year old basically bringing up 2 seven year olds is absolutely unacceptable and I'd be alerting their school to the situation so that a support system is in place before the "parent" in this household leaves.

I agree that they definately need the boot up the arse thing. But... the kids are still well cared for, clean and healthy etc etc. It is just the lack of general and genuine TLC.

We will continue to monitor and my other friend lives nearby and will keep a very close eye on the kids and gently nudge the mother when needed. The older son is leaving in 3 months and hopefully that will provide some sort of wakeup call.

Maybe I need to step back into it again - she withdrew a bit from me after the tough talking. We still talk regularly on the phone but unless I go over to her house I do not see her.

So, we will wait and see and carry on caring...

Tough situation.

Can you do one thing - make sure you tell the 16 year old what you've written here - tell him how amazing he has been, what a wonderful job he has done, how highly you rate him etc. Ideally do it verbally and in writing. I bet from the sound of it that his parents won't give him positive feedback and it could be life transforming for him to know that someone somewhere has noticed and approves of him. You can send him off to his new life with a warm glow to help him through what will be a hard transition - bet he will feel guilty and worried.

Then - can you bear to do the second thing. I wonder what you get out of this friendship and whether it is worth risking it for the children's sake? It sounds like there is quite a bit of support around this family, but perhaps by helping you are all actually making things continue as the parents have no need to change when they know people will step in and do things for them. I think they need some tough love : someone needs to do what you did last year again, and tell them they need to get a plan for getting themselves sorted out, otherwise these children will suffer. I know it's really tough for them if they are depressed/alcoholic etc - but they will risk losing their kids if they can't take themselves in charge. Someone needs to get them started on that road - is it you?

I agree to a certain extent what Workingitoutaswego has written. But Alcoholics are ADICTS. I don't think tough love in this situation will work. They cannot will themselves out of it, that is not how it works. They have to reach out themselves I'm affraid and there is not much you can do to get them to that point quicker.

I think you have done all the right things ChocDee, Those children will so grateful of your support. If you can carry on being a positive influence that will be great for them.

Most important is giving them the tools to deal with this tragic situation, so that they do not also use alchohol etc as a crutch when they come across hard times.

I taught a boy whoes parents were both drug addicts, his only glimmers of happiness, fun and guidence came from his next door neighboor. He is now a great, responsible young man, with his own little buisness.

You're not being judgey pants. Absolutely not. I was a child in a similar situation, and this family needs help- the situation seems much worse. And something needs to be started before the 16 year old leaves; he must be worried for his siblings, and they must be pretty terrified, too.

Oh, and I suspect the elder son is not lazy with his studies- he's simply worn out! Twins are hard work (okay, I'm reading between the lines here) and I think he's been looking after them for years now, as conditions gradually worsened. When would he have time to do his homework?

Don't rely on either of them getting help just because it seems the only viable solution to you, from the viewpoint of a non-depressed person. Like ramade said, there's addiction here. To play the personal-experience card, my mother pretty much chose alcohol over me, and will likely choose it over seeing her grandchildren.

Thank you one and all for your replies.

She has just been round for a coffee and I was biting my tongue. She is extremely negative about her oldest DS complaining bitterly about his grades and crap attitude etc etc. Grrrrrrrrr! Apparently she cannot wait until he gets a wake up call and begins to take some responsibility and leaves home.

She was fuming that he had been paid 50 Euro for some gardening work - she had previously insisted that he should only be paid 30. She found out that he had been paid more when she demanded he paid her back the 10 Euro she had given him for the cinema last week.

I will try and swallow my extreme frustration with her for the sake of the children and try and get closer to her again - THEN I will once again lay the cards on the table and actually ask her how she sees the situation and what is she going to do about it?

And yes, we do praise him to the sky. He really is a fantastic young man. But I am sure that he would love for his parents to actually say it as well...