In not having much sympathy with a couple on £45k plus per year having some benefits cut?

[ssd]

There is loads of this on the news just now about how "middle income" families will be having some child tax credits cut and might be paying more tax. They news are showing what to me looks like comfortable off families having to do with a bit less. Is this really so bad? I know an income of £45-£50k per year might not be much in central London but will keep you in style in parts of the north, but how bad will it be? So people might have to change jobs/give up the second car/holiday at home instead of Spain every year? SO WHAT? There are plenty of us living on less than £25k a year who have had to cut back since having kids and take this as a fact of life.

I know MN is made up of mostly middle earners and I'll get pelters for this, but I don't really care. Anyone I know on a middle income can afford to give up some things _ its called life.

this one is hider for me. i can't stand this ridiculous competitive pooring face of mn.

£45K sounds a lot and is a lot of money but in reality is just doesn't go as far as people who earn less think it will (especially if you live in a middling/high cost area, have children in childcare and commuting costs).

To what income level do the tax credits etc take people? In terms of take home for a family of £45k against the same size family with gross salaries of, say, £25k, where do they both end up in terms of net income each month? I think I am trying to ask how much you wd need to earn to get the same amount without tax credits?

skidoodly - I was certainly not "competitive pooring" as you put it, maybe you missed the fact I said we have more than £50k

Maybe it SHOULD be a right that everyone should have a house such as that, but in this country it just ISN'T one, and I think people have to accept that.

I do think that people spend to much and then think they are skint. I know people that spend £300+ on food for a family of 3 a month! I get all our food, nappies, going out, savings for holidays, christmas money, petrol etc all out of £400 a month for the whole family.

We are always out doing something and holiday twice a year and run a car. We regularly go out for meals and go without nothing for that amount of money. All you have to do is shop around, collect vouchers, use points etc.

Well I feel bloody lucky
we don't earn anywhere near 45k but we have enough (as long as dh gets contracts). I have to stay at home because we can't afford for me to go to work (how lucky am I?)
So I do what I can, I grow veg and keep chickens, I work bloody hard to help the ends meet, in fact I think I work harder than dh and I'm lucky in that I get to do it in a way that I love. We have use of a car (dhs dads) which I am so grateful for after not having a car for a while.
Things are very tight but I am fully aware that some of that is down to bad luck and some down to our bad management.
We have a house, cramped but it is ours, a car to use, 4 healthy children and a large beautiful sky above us.
If they take some more money something else will have to give, I might have to work a bit harder producing food, forage some more, become a freegan...just being even more economical but I am lucky.
The sun is shining, ask me again when its raining

compo yes, I agree a lot of people put in long hours and are poorly paid. I don't disagree with Tax Credits, I think they are great in terms of assisting people to enter or remain in work. However, that doesn't mean that others (who have maybe incurred debts while training) who also work long hours, with a lot of responsibility shouldn't have a more affluent standard of living. (BTW I am not talking about myself here)

It would help if they could get the right hand talking to the left hand or whatever the metaphor is though. the country would save loads of money and stress for people and things could run a lot more smoothly

Quattrocento:
RE: " but still these are families where both parents can afford to work, when many families actually cannot afford that luxury. If that makes sense ... "

but the tide can turn fast. Right now, we have one ds so financially feel okay (if we would much rather a 3 bed house). However, if I got pg next year, say, and 2 under 3, it would become actually very difficult for me to justify going back to work as such a high proportion of the money I bring in would be eaten up by nursery care (18K out of 19,200!!!). So then we would end up at a household income of 33K overnight so that I had the 'luxury' of being a SAHM.. the fixed outgoings would be similar (mortgage etc) and while we might not be 'struggling', it wouldn't take much to make us struggle (an unexpected third pregnancy etc). As I am an NHS worker in a sector under threat with particularly 'niche' skills, it's not unlikely that by the time the nursery coss were less of an issue, it would be difficult for me to get work for which I am qualified, pushing any income I did get much further down the scale..

So I don't feel wealthy because I am in 'the top 10%' with my 2-bed semi d and 3 door ford fiesta!

that should read 2 under 3

skidoodly _ I hope you are not saying that I am "demanding that everything is cut that isnt totally necessary". I am assuming you ARE attributing that to me, since you kindly quoted me at the top of your post. But I didn't say that, just said what my definition of living in style is. No need to take out all your vitriol at the whole thread upon ME.

Thanks.

Anyway, back to sick DD. Just was a bit stunned to come back to the thread and see vitriol and swearing directed at me for being someone who has more than £50k and does feel like it's a decent amount in fact.

maybe you should start a thread explaining how you do that sunshine - I'd be interested

we have a joint income of 45k and have big mortgage payments on a 2 bed house and other debts and we spend 400 quid a month on just food and petrol

we have an old car, haven't had a holiday for years, work long hours (without being paid overtime as we both have high pressure jobs) so not much time to shop around for stuff, and yes we go out a couple of times but not for a massive night out like most of our friends do

i want to ttc soon but i am so worried about how we could afford to have a child

we could cut back on food, but because of my medical condition there are certain things i can't eat which tend to be cheaper (pasta etc)

AuntieMaggie- you need to be extraordinary to get sunshine

Quite a lot of disposable income is used to pay off debts, but I don't see that as me being poor due to my income, I see it as I overspent in the past so am now paying for it, would have a decent amount of disposable cash if I didn't have to.

But mine is obviously a very unpopular view on here and no energy for hard hat donning so will be off to put my feet up.

I'm stunned at the level of swearing on this thread. It's base - the swearing that is, hopefully not the people doing it.

What about people on 20K who have similar costs? Someone on 45K does have the choice to downsize instead of living in a high-cost area.

"£45K doesn't go as far as people who earn less think it will (especially if you live in a middling/high cost area, have children in childcare and commuting costs)."

Actually it makes me really cross when I go shopping and have a trolley half full of meat fish fruit and vegetables and the person at the next til has a trolley full of frozen and processed food and their shop is much cheaper than mine!

ahh just seen you were talking to sunshine

I spend £400 on all that stuff for 6 including nappies if that helps

We live in one of the roughest places in Bristol... I don't think we can move to anywhere much cheaper

We were one of the last people to get the 125% mortgages hence why our payments are so high for a small 2 bed terrace (at the time we thought it was a good idea...)

Our debts are our fault - some from studying at uni, I amounted a fair bit of debt when I was suffering from depression and have nothing to show for it, but half of it has gone on this house for things that have gone wrong and on the car. I'm trying my best to pay it back, but you're right I'd be better off if I didn't spend 500 quid a month paying it back.

Seriously bronze? for 6?

I haven't a clue how - my petrol bill alone is over 100 quid since the prices have gone up and that's just to get to work!

"What about people on 20K who have similar costs? Someone on 45K does have the choice to downsize instead of living in a high-cost area."

Why doesn't the person on £20K also have that choice? There are lower salaries than £20K so those people must have a good bit of fat to trim too, no?

how does self employed = plenty
self employed = unreliable wage Theres no pensions in this house
We will work til we drop I'm sure or sell our house to pay for our care

AuntieMaggie
there have been quite a few but you sound down so shall we start a thread about ways to save money. I always find something new on them to help the pocket

YABU,

DH and I run 2 small businesses employing around 15 people. DH works a 80 - 100 hour week and I work about 20+ hours. We have one week off at Xmas, no holidays etc etc. When you work out our hourly rate we are working for around £12 p/h.

We have a mortgage and choose to overpay on it rather than spend money on "cappucino's", boden clothes, private education, or whatever other class stereotype you care to think of.

choosing to overpay your mortgage is also a luxury though, IMO...