To wonder why some parents refuse to support teachers?

[Rosieeo]

Why do some parents blindly stick up for their children, regardless of the obvious truth?

Had Angry Mum on the phone today, complaining because I've rejected her darling boy's coursework. Darling Boy's essay consisted of a rather bad copy n paste job. I'd say maybe a quarter was his own work. I followed our department procedure, which involves a re-submission of coursework under supervision and a record kept on his personal file.

But, according to Angry Mum, I have not been sympathetic enough to his laziness plight and besides, I must be wrong about the plagiarism as Darling Boy would not cheat. I have the evidence and have emailed her links to the sites in question, to which she replied that there must be a mistake, someone must have stolen his work and put it on the internet! And anyway, I am at fault, because I haven't 'captured his imagination' and haven't offered to coach him outside of class time.

AIBU to scream 'Wake up woman! Open your eyes and kick your child into touch! Stop babying him for crying out loud, stop encouraging the endless sense of entitlement that he already has! And STOP bothering me at work with your foolishness!' ?

Never ceases to amaze me how god awful some of our parents are, v. depressing.
Stolen and put on the internet is quite special YANBU at all.

Goldenbear although I referred to the essay as being a cut and paste job on here, I can assure you that I did not say that to the mother! I let her know that her son had plagiarised. There is surely a difference between showing concern and plain idiocy?

I don't mind being questioned. I didn't mind responding to the boy's mother (which is why I took the phone call in the first place), but I didn't think I'd be faced with outright denial followed by accusations of blame!

LOL @ StayFrosty.

@MrsC2010 -- it's very easy. "I'm afraid I can't give your child extra work/extra time because if I did that, for the sake of fairness I would have to do the same for all 150 other students I teach, and I simply don't have time."

Either that or say, "well, I charge £50 per hour for private tutoring. . . "

OP YADNBU. Thank god in HE we can cite the data protection act if a parent gets in touch we're not even allowed to confirm or deny that their DC is a student of the university unless said student has given us permission in writing to talk to them. You would be amazed how many parents get in touch to complain about poor little Johnny wanting to change course or do more this or having trouble making friends, and when you speak to 6'2" 19-year-old Johnny he is embarrassed and furious that Mum has been in touch with his tutor and treated him like a baby.

My teenagers teachers often have to ring me as he's a lazy sod. They always seem really surprised when I apologise for his behaviour and now I know why!!
Mine wouldn't be alive now if he'd been copying and pasting coursework!!!

There is no way I'd assume the teacher was right and my dcs were wrong.
Have had several occasions where I have been lied to by their teachers - not big lies, but lies nonetheless. They watch their backs - everyone does.
I expect my kids to behave very well at school but I also expect the teachers to do the same. Teachers are not saints who commit no wrong and I won't support that view at home either.

'Rosieeo' I didn't think you had told the mother that it was a cut a paste job. Her response sounds defensive to be honest, possibly deluded but how about if she was right and you were to blame for poor teaching methods should this never be highlighted because 'bad' teaching doesn't exist, now that's deluded if you ask me. I was taught in 80's and 90's and remember loads of uninspiring, cold and jobs worth teachers. I was a last minute crammer of exam revision, and coursework but was in no way a right off just because I wasn't organised, this is not testament to intelligence as a lot of teachers have implied on here- writing off pupils because they didn't attend catch up sessions when offered is absurd to me.

Well, presumeably Rosieeo has been teaching this boy since at least September so if the student and his parents had any concerns previously about Rosieeo's teaching; they should have used parents evenings and other opportunities to bring them up.

The boy may well be intelligent and yes, lots of people are last minute crammers but if so, they can't necessarily expect their teacher to be available with advice or guidance at the exact point they need it. The teacher teaches the work, offers after-school catch-up session, sets a deadline for the coursework and then it's down to the student to produce the goods.

I fail to see what Rosieeo could have done differently.

I had one student reproduce great chunks of 'The Kite Runner' for her 'creative' writing. Ha ha haaa. She had thought I wouldn't notice. I did. And then when I told her why she had to start again, she asked if she could submit it anyway as she thought the examiner might not notice

Re. the point made earlier about teaching in the 60s and schools not bothering with 'lost causes'....yes, quite probably. Education has changed rather a lot since then and children are no longer written off as 'lost causes'. Well, I suppose an individual teacher might do but it is certainly not an institutionalised thing as it once was.

If anything, schools now bend over backwards to teach the less able/difficult/unteachable children; sometimes to the detriment of the average child.

I don't remember any 14/15 year olds having the insight to attend revision sessions that would enhance their knowledge of a subject. We're not talking about adults at university or at work who you would expect to know the consequences of bad decisions.

Anyway, I was arguing on a broader level that teachers are sometimes to blame and that on a personal level I had some pretty shit teachers but I know that there are some very competent ones out there. I just don't get why you can't criticise some very small elements of a profession as you would with any other.

Actually my 60's reference was supposed to be a rebuff to the idea that 'kids of today' are terrible, that they have an inflated sense of entitlement.......there is nothing wrong with rocking the boat a bit, sometimes it changes things for the better. Actually the example I gave re my dad, was concerned with the majority, not the minority at a comprehensive school not being encouraged to do 'A' levels. I bet some teachers wholly agreed that this was acceptable but clearly these opinions were rightly challenged.

GoldenBear, "I don't remember any 14/15 year olds having the insight to attend revision sessions that would enhance their knowledge of a subject. We're not talking about adults at university or at work who you would expect to know the consequences of bad decisions."

im not trying to be aggressive or anything, but the revision sessions wouldnt be offered if people didnt go to them, and 14/15 year olds are definately old enough to understand that if you put no work in you get nowt out!
what else are teachers supposed to do if they offer direct help and the pupils do not take it?

of course there are mistakes made in every profession. im a bit more that a parent thinks its okay to ring up a teacher rather than encourage their child to sort the issue out themselves!
copied work and put it on the internet. love it.
i thinks kids do have a sense of entitlement. you have to work damn hard to get anywhere in this life, and sometimes you just cant make that work any easier, and you just have to accept it!

YANBU!!!! With you all the way!

YANBU, I too love the notion of the child's work being stolen and put on the internet BUT, my son has at various times in his secondary school career been physically assaulted (PE teacher, with witnesses), and publicly ridiculed ("don't be stupid, dyslexia is no excuse for poor spelling" said in front of entire class by Head of English) so I no longer blindly believe that all teachers are caring professionals with my child's best interest at heart. Luckily at his current school I would say 99.9% of teachers are!

'I don't remember any 14/15 year olds having the insight to attend revision sessions that would enhance their knowledge of a subject.'

My son and several of his friends turn up to extra classes on Wednesday and Thursday without being dragged there by mummy. he's disappointed that Maths and History run on the same evening so he has to choose one.

'stop encouraging the endless sense of entitlement that he already has!'
Couldn't agree more. I teach children who at 8 think they don't need to work because they'll win X factor or play for Chelsea. I'm encouraging them to think of what they'll do as an alternative!

YANBU some of our neighbours are in the police and every one of them says that they can go to parents house of 'Johnny Angel' and tell the parents Johnny has been stealing. The parents will say it's not possible as Johnny wouldn't do that kind of thing, they then show them cctv footage of Johnny stealing said item and the parents will turn around and say the footage has been doctored or it's not their son when it clearly is. It happens a lot apparently!

CultOfTheChildStrikesAgainTiggaxx

YANBU. I posted on this the other day in response to an OP who was disappointed her kid lied to her. Not uncommon to come across parents who simply cannot accept that their child can and will lie and that THEY WILL NOT KNOW. Tchh!
More seriously on the plagiarism issue thought, I have had to run sessions for 6th formers on the difference between research and note taking for an essay and plagiarism. honestly well meaning and hard working kids who really didn't see how to use info from books without just copying it and "putting it in your owns words" is not enough. those buy an essay websites don't help either. (sorry, gone slightly off topic there but really hacks me off that there are adults out there who will help kids cheat for profit)

I remember having to tell some very difficult parents that their child had been very rude to me and hadnt come to the follow up detention. I'd had to speak to their child to ask her to take out her nose stud as per school policy. Parents went ballistic at me and lodged a complaint to governors and my line manager as their dd didnt have a nose stud apparently.
Oh the egg on their face when they caught her with said nose stud a couple of weeks later.

I've also been accused of losing a boy's coursework and had a complaint made against me. Apparently the boy admitted this to their parents after I'd advised them it hadnt been submitted and they'd told him he couldnt go out that weekend till it had been done. The next week he readily admitted to me he'd lied so he could go out and I wrote a letter to his parents setting out his admission. No apology though.

It starts when they are 5yrs with the father phoning the school because he has a distraught DD on his hands because she hasn't been given a main part in the class Christmas play-and what is the Head GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?!!

The said father starts the conversation with 'I have a serious complain to make....'!

I do agree with you, OP, that some parents are bringing up children to not have one iota of responsibiity for their actions.

But we have also come across some teachers who have lied and did not believe me that DD3 was ill, despite Dr letter, Paediatrician letter and me saying it repeatedly. It was implied that I wrote these letters myself! -DD has now been too unwell to be in school for nearly 2 years.

It is not all one way street!!!

Would anybody like to place bets on the excuses two sets of parents are going to give me when it comes to light that their boys asked me a "highly inappropriate sexual question" yesterday?

Actually, I'm pretty sure one of the boys will come from a home where the parents just wouldn't care enough to defend him even if he were being accused of something he didn't do. Have a feeling though that boy 2's parents will be on the phone like a shot...

I would have always said believe the teacher

but

as ds1 was bullied by a teacher and off school for over 2 years (with a private home tutor paid for by the LEA) Id always believe my sons until I myself had proof.

Positive attitude (i know you from another thread ) being in a similar situation as you with ds2 fortunately school know me well enough now to know im 'very straight and direct' so we havent had that element of hassle.

Me, I have 5 standard responses to any complaint my dcs make of school:

A. Well, I think Mrs X is right, so I'm not going to do anything about it.

B. I think Mrs X is wrong, but I am still not going to do anything about it.

C. I have no possible means of knowing who is right, you or Mrs X, so I really can't do anything about it.

D. Reaches for telephone.

A and C get used every week, B perhaps once a month, D only gets an airing every few years (and once ds has left his present school I might never have to resort to it again ).