In refusing to send DCs to school with plastic water bottles?

[MadameCastafiore]

Right may be a bit long winded but here we go.

DCs have a new head at their school and a couple of months ago were sent home with really shite plastic bottles with sports caps which we were told had to be used for them to drink water in class - now I refused - the bottles were made of the same plastic you buy evian, you couldn't put them in the dishwasher to clean them and IMO you can never get a sports cap properly clean and the ones on these bottles were really soft plastic which after they had been chewed a couple of times (which all kids do I think) they looked grotty and really filthy.

Anyway fast forward to DCs getting in trouble for not having these bottles - I worte to the head and told him about the crappness of the plastic and the fact that they were made of a type of plastic that was not meant to be used over and over again and I said my kids would be using their sig bottles due to the fact that they were easy to clean, did not have sports caps (a urologist I spoke to said sports caps are vile and harbour germs and he told all of his kidney patients not to use them but to sip straight from the bottle) and they were made of metal which did not leach chemicals into the water (don't want my kids drinking from bottles which leach chemicals that mimic oestrogen into the water they are going to drink) and they were not see through so sunlight and heat wouldn;t affect the water and make bacteria multiply if the bottles were not properly cleaned.

He then fought a bit and last week they were selling new bottles (because the first one was free after that you have to pay £1.50 if you lose or break them), new bottles that are made out of a different kind of plastic and can go in the dishwasher but they still have sports caps.

The headmaster says that the bottles have to be see through so he can be sure we are not sending the kids to school with juice or fizzy drink (doh flavoured water is what most of DSs friends have in theirs which nulifies the point to some degree!) I said I am quite happy for him to check the DCs bottles and to make sure it is just water or I am happy to send them in with empty bottles which they will fill up from the water fountain at school.

Now do you think I am making a big thing out of nothing, I do think it is silly to kick off about lots of little things but it grates on me that this man does not trust us enough to do the best for our children and I know some parents don't but really this level of control is a little purile IMO. DSs teacher hasn;t said anything else to him after the first few times but DDs teacher is on her case telling her she muct have this see through bottle.

Can he make us use them is something I would also like answered?

Thank you for taking the time to read my ranty essay.

Surely a discussion between the school and the parents would be a good way of resolving this issue? It would be easy to meet in the middle surely.

Our school allows whatever type of bottle the parent decides and allows only water in them (they do random checks).

The bottles are kept by the door to encourage the children to have a drink as they come in and go out. They are allowed a drink in class if they need one but this is rarely used. There is also a water fountain if they forget or lose their bottles.

They are allowed a fruit juice in their lunchbox AND they have water on the table at lunchtime.

As a parent we do not want their children to get dehydrated and as parents we naturally want to protect them from harm as they see fit. Surely a school can suggest but can not demand what bottles we use for our children.

I was constantly thirsty at school and regularly used to drink out of the toilet taps which was known to give you a tummy ache and I suffered constantly from UTI's. I would not wish that on my children.

That's what I'd like lilmiss: water in whatever bottle I decide.

claire a "mouthful of squash" is hardly going to poison them. But it's obvious that regular mouthfuls of a sugary drink (no matter how diluted) is bad for the teeth and is more likely to lead to cavities. Similarly frequent consumption of artifical sweeteners is bad for the body - human or otherwise. I've never had a pet who refuses water and wants squash instead... so why should a child???

I'm sure it's frustrating if one has a child who doesn't "like" water. But it's clearly what's best for them. It's what my son has mostly drunk, as well as milk, and he's fine with it. He gets the very rare alternative drink (almost never a fizzy drink) and he's happy with that. It's clearly just what they're used to.

If they get a headache because they don't drink enough, they should learn that drinking water stops it. Not hard, really.

I don't regard my son as a pet is the obvious difference. I'm attempting to bring up a well balanced individual capable of making intelligent decisions on his own not training a dog. If you don't want your children to ever consume any sugar, artifical sweeteners, additives etc that's up to you. To me all you're achieving is ensuring they want all the crap they can get their hands on when they're out of your sight as they've never learnt to moderate themselves.

'allows only water in them (they do random checks).'

I can see that going down well on here!!! People would take grave exception to random checks.

The water business is something that sorts itself out, if left to the DCs. If they are not particularly thirsty they will be fussy and they might like juice but not water-rather like me saying a glass of chilled white wine would be lovely but I won't bother with water. If they have had a long game of rounders on a hot summer day and are all hot and sweaty they will drink water and be very pleased to have it. (In the same situation I would want the water and not the wine).
I have never known a DC who is red in the face, with sweat dripping down, tell me that they don't like water and they won't have any.

I am a bit bemused by the container bit. Any jogger that you see out, or anyone going to the gym will be clutching a plastic bottle. In the schools that have a completely free choice of container, every one is plastic. I would be very dubious about metal ones and someone listed the health risks with them earlier. I am sure that if it was the norm to drink from metal containers we would hear a lot more about possible health risks.

No claire, it's not an obvious difference. You as the adult are responsible for what your child eats and drinks in your house and what they take to school. A Pet owner is also responsible for the things the pet eats ad drinks..
Too many parents like to lay the choice at the dc's door. Barking mad.

I should make it clear that I am not anti squash-just anti squash in lessons. I like drinking water but not all the time, DCs are the same.

I didn't see the health risks re metal (nearly all my pans are stainless steel too).

Letting your children choose what they want to drink is barking mad because they should be obedient & well trained just like dogs. Your poor, poor children. On that note I'm stepping away from this thread.

I really wouldn't worry Claire. We seem to be on 2 different issues here.

1. School rules.

2, What DCs drink.

I think that schools make rules from practicalities and parents should support them-or find out majority opinion and work with the school to find a solution if the majority want it.

Children will drink water if they are thirsty, but like adults, they don't want water all the time. There is nothing wrong with weak squash. Any parent who bans sugared drinks and fizzy, on all occasions, is making it very desirable and they will have the DCs who have a problem once they get out of parental control. DCs do need to self moderate-they are not pets!

I have no idea if there are health risks with metal containers-but it wouldn't surprise me. Most people don't use them extensively so it isn't really an issue. I just wonder if it might be, if people were drinking from them every day.I certainly wouldn't place faith in them.

piscesmoon, "MsHighwater-I am in RL a very reasonable person. I'm afraid that you just bring out the utter childishness in me, because you appear to be so difficult for the sheer sake of it. I remember your thread where you wanted the right to send your DC into school with a processed snack when the rule was fruit! Your DC will survive the few hours between breakfast on lunch on water and fruit!" If you are going to remember my posts, kindly remember them correctly. I did not start the packed lunch thread and I never at any stage said that I wanted to give my dc "a processed snack". I responded to another MNers OP on the issue by saying that, in my opinion and with a limited range of sensible exceptions, the choice of what goes into a child's packed lunch is the sole preserve of the parent(s) providing it. Exactly what I would provide my dd to eat is not the school's business and is certainly not yours. You also asserted in another post that schools make rules "for practicality". I suggest that sometimes the reasons are more complex - and less defensible - than that and I object entirely to the idea that school rules are always right and must be followed without question (on pain of being labelled as "difficult").

kittywise, "Also mrshighwater, had you ever thought how your behaviour WILL affect how your dc is treated at school by the teachers? This is because no matter how impartial a teacher will try to be in the face of a ranting and unreasonable parent, it Will affect the teacher's relationship with the child concerned". What gave you the impression I would be "ranting and unreasonable"? It might be news to you but it is possible for a parent to have a reasonable objection to a school rule if the rule itself is, like this one, unreasonable. That said, are you really saying that it's OK for a teacher to take their feelings about a parent out on the child?

Piscesmoon, you said "schools make rules from practicalities and parents should support them-or find out majority opinion and work with the school to find a solution if the majority want it" - I have an alternative suggestion for you. On some issues, they don't need to have a rule!

claire, somehow it doesn't surprise me that you have failed to see the point I was making.

Agree to differ MsHighwater. I have told you all the practicalities of drinks in the classroom, but as you don't have to deal with them you don't want to know.
If it was me I wouldn't alienate school staff over something so trivial.

I assure you, piscesmoon, if the school staff were alienated by my stance on an issue like this, it would not be because of my unreasonableness.

I don't think that it matters who is being reasonable or unreasonable-I would avoid being the parent that all staff want to avoid! Every school has them!
I just support the school-if they want just fruit-send just fruit. If they want just water-send just water. Does it matter?! The school day is short-do what you like at home.
If it does matter then choose a school that allows sugary drinks in the classroom and snacks of biscuits, cheese, crisps etc.

Yes, piscesmoon, it matters. Because my dc - all the dc - matter more than the school does and more than what the teachers think of me matters. So I will continue to do what I think is right without compromising my dd's welfare and I would expect any parent to do the same.

You seem to need to believe that I am defending my right to feed my child sugary drinks and snacks of biscuits, cheese and crisps; I have never either in this thread or any other said anything about what I would give my child to eat or drink. I simply expect the school to leave me alone to choose what my child eats or drinks - and what they eat and drink out of - without unwarranted intrusion.

No school should expect sheep-like, unquestioning, adherence to any and every rule from parents (although I can understand why you, as a teacher, wish that it would happen). Sensible rules with a clear basis should be followed. Pointless, intrusive "rules-for-the-sake-of-rules" should be treated with the contempt they deserve.

I want a lot from a school MsHighwater and have a huge list of questions, oddly enough trivial rules about water bottles didn't feature on it!
I assume that a school can say what they want or don't want on their premises. If I have visitors they abide by my rules. They may want to exercise their 'rights' by bringing in candy floss on a stick, but it is my house and I would give them 2 choices, eat it before you come in or leave it on paper in the kitchen until they go home. I don't see why a school can't do the same. Should a child be allowed to bring out an apple in the middle of a maths lesson because it is an unwarranted intrusion for the school to say it is inappropriate?
It is all getting too silly for words. It is another thread where I must sit on my hands whatever the provocation.
It is a shame when you get a parent who is so difficult, and it acts against them. For example when it comes to volunteers for a school trip any teacher is likely to say 'I am not having that woman'! It is not worth the hassle-trips need rules and they are not up for negotiation.
I will stop reading-I can't believe the time I have wasted on it!

piscesmoon, if you had taken the couple of minutes it would have taken you to read what I have actually written instead of projecting your own prejudices about parents who have the gall to disagree with you, you might have saved yourself the hassle.

mrshighwater. I think you would you do well to listen to piscemoon and cat. It is in the interest of your dc that you stop being so difficult.

My final word on the subject is a piece of advice MsHighwater; you are at the start of your school journey and I am at the end with my DCs. Education should be a partnership between home and school, I don't think that it is in the interests of your DC to get bogged down in them/us. Cat64, sums it up perfectly. When you choose a school take care that the general ethos suits your DC and let the little things go.You and your DC are not the centre of the universe.
It is nothing to do with my personal prejudices, I think that all teachers would find you difficult and avoid you when at all possible. I would certainly have no hassle with you on a school trip, because I would refuse to take you as a helper.
Schools have rules. They will have things like walk on the left, ask before you leave the room to go to the toilet, PE is to be done in bare feet etc etc. The parent can't decide which ones they want to follow! As cat says, every single little thing can't be put to a vote, and if it were there would always be a split.
Keep in mind the big picture, let the little things go-or home educate and do it your way with complete control.
The same people are contributing to this thread-I assume that most are bored rigid by the subject of water bottles! I certainly don't want to know anything more about them!

MsHighwater - Totally agree with you. I think if people are avoiding this thread it's not because of either of us.

YANBU - You should be able to send them to school with whatever bottle you like!

I also think YANBU and should be able to send to school with a bottle of your own choice.