AIBU to believe this and feel incredibly disturbed

[paranoidandrex]

I have read some very disturbing articles today on the case of a Scottish woman with downs syndrome who was systematically abused as a child by her father and a paedophile ring he was involved with. If these stories are true (and the more I read into it the more convinced I am) it would seem that the abuse involved individuals up to the highest level of the Scottish Establishment.

www.paltelegraph.com/columnists/peter-eyre/4403-the-deeply-upsetting-story-of-hollie-greig

Also google search Hollie Greig and you will find a site campaigning for justice for Hollie as well as other articles.

It seems that there is a D-Notice on the British Press and that there has been a major cover-up resulting in many important public figures implicated in the abuse never being investigated or even questioned and the case being unknown to the general public.

So, AIBU to believe this? TBH I'm really hoping that every says YES! and that it is obviously a load of conspiracy theory hogwash (and there does seem to be some inconsistencies in the story) because the alternative is too horrible to contemplate.

BTW I have name changed as I am feeling extremely paranoid about being recognised, due to the way I discovered this story, although I am probably getting too caught up in the conspiracy theory side of things.

sorry, mistaken - it's not today's it was published in November 2009

I live in Aberdeen and I've never heard of this story. Thank you for the link to the Press and Journal. It seems that the Palestine Telegraph have just copied most of the P and J article and tried to make it sound more suspicious.

scottishmummy: in answer to your question, don't really want to elaborate, mostly because I feel a bit of a tit for believing it and don't want anyone to work out who I am (I know, paranoid, but hey).

SGB: I also searched snopes. I think Hollie probably does exist and to some extent has been abused but the whole paedophile ring-establishment involvement-press cover up angle is at best exagerrated or at worst fabricated.

Who knows, after reading runnybottom's link it seems that her mother is a fantatist herself and a lot of the people involved are now turning against her.

Must learn not to be sucked into these things!

I need to assure everyone that Hollie Greig is a very real person, her case and the scandal surrounding it, are very real and very tragic. Under Scottish Law she has failed to get justice and her abusers are still free, despite new evidence that means the case needs to be reinvestigated. She has been awarded compensation and she was not disbelieved in the initial investigation. Unfortunately some of the people involved in the justice system were amongst her abusers.

This is a report of her receiving compensation:
www.guardian.co.uk/education/2010/apr/07/primary-reforms-abandoned-labour

T he British media have been effectively but the world press have not ...yet.....and hopefully won't as the story has gained so much support [although not all of it has been the right sort and misinformation is rife].

www.paltelegraph.com/columnists/peter-eyre/4757-scottish-government-cover-up-of-hol lie-greig-part-1-how-it-all-came-to-light

BTW The David Icke site is not the main one covering it. He is just one of many people who are concerned about the injustice. He has a problem with governments and this just happens to fit in with his theories. He is however concerned on a personal level and for that I am grateful.

There are several sites and groups, including some facebook groups but they are run by various different people and lately there has been some disharmony due to some people passing on misinformation.

AFAIK this site is a good one to go for any information and ways to help support the fight for justice.

www.holliedemandsjustice.org/

The "stolen kids" website/blog was "supposed" to be official but upon discovering that the owner Greg Lance Watkins was unreliable, Anne Greig and Robert Green made a public declaration that they did not want to be associated with it. This meant that he then turned to abusing them and others.

I do not pretend to know all the ins and outs of all this but what I do know is that Hollie Greig was abused for 14 years. She was believed by the Grampian police but as with many cases of abuse, it was not considered a viable case to take further. Because under Scottish law, her abuse was not under question, she received compensation. Because Hollie has Down's syndrome it is highly unlikely that any of her evidence would be anything other than the absolute truth. Over the years she has remembered other things and some evidence has come to light regarding some medical reports confirming that she had a sexually transmitted disease as a child which can only have been caused by abuse. All in all, this means that the case needs re-investigating. Anne Greig has always been concerned that the abusers have continued to abuse.

If you don't believe me, that is your opinion and you are entitled to it but please rest assured that I am just a concerned parent and grandparent who knows the horror that abuse can cause and the ripples of pain that it sends throughout society.

Why on earth would there be a DA Notice on this? And what makes anyone think ALL newspapers and broadcasters would stand by and agree to the DA Notice system being used to cover up child abuse? A story worth defying a DA Notice for, surely?

That really is the stuff of paranoid conspiracy bollocks. Perhaps the case is not being covered because there simply isn't enough or any evidence to accuse particular men of abusing Hollie?

That doesn't mean Hollie isn't telling the truth 9everyone seems to believe she is so far as she can, which is why she got compensation), only that she may not be accurate in every respect. I am very uneasy about posts like this and links like the one in the OP which name and shame without a scintilla of reliable evidence that the men so named are actually guilty. The sheriff concerned has been completely hounded by Robert Green, but without any further helpful facts being brought to light. Bizarre.

In not going to add my personal comments about whats been said here about the Hollie Greig case, as i dont think you would like them. All i can say is we are a group who is trying to get justice for Hollie Greig, a Downs Syndrome girl who was abused by a paedophile ring since she was six. Paedophiles in this ring consisted of her own father and brother,a top Sherriff in Scotland,{his name is public}, nurses, social workers and a top policeman {now deceased} and many more. 14 other children were abused as well, it is said. The reason no media will cover it is because they know the consequences.The Warrington Guardian did an article on it, and there is a radio show by Paul Drockton at least once a week on it,+ other radio shows. Many shows are in my youtube playlists @ www.youtube.com/butlincat1. Davide Icke has talked about the paedophilia rife especially in the Scottish establishment, but i know his is a bad name here, even tho he is very explicit about happenings, so theres no point in mentioning his input. Here is an Edge Media prog, from the 22nd April which explains things = http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=AAD2770ABA175E42 = There is far too much to explain about this case and no room here, but we are not mad, and the case is very real, and even the BBC were going to do a programme after weeks of research before they were ordered to stop everything immediatly on the orders of the high-ups as so many top politicians were linked to this heinous crime. Call me what you want - a crackpot, liar - whatever, but you wont change ther fact that this case is very real and being covered up from the very top...b. ROBERT GREEN, Hollies lawyer, explaining things {he is unpaid} - http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=7B005E8A8F22A73E -..thank you for ur time.

@EldritchCleavage....you do not have to believe if you don't. That is your prerogative but please do not dismiss it as "bollocks" as this is untrue.

As I explained, the case needs to be re-opened and re-investigated due to new documented evidence coming to light.

Lawyers seem to think that there is now enough substantiated evidence to bring it to court.

There is nothing paranoid about something like that and as far as a conspiracy on behalf of Hollie's supporters goes, that is bizarre. Robert Green has brought up legitimate concerns and shown proof of evidence. Any "hounding" he may have done is in the pursuit of justice.

Right from the beginning, I, being a sensible and reasonably intelligent person, have reviewed everything I have seen and heard and come to the conclusion that there is a lot of gossipy misinformation going round but at the root of it all is an injustice.

It may mean that the law needs changing or at least some loopholes need tightening up so that people can be brought in for questioning in circumstances like this.

I hope you have read all this and I thank you if you have.

My reference to paranoid conspiracy bollocks manifestly referred only to the suggestion there might be a DA Notice on this story and that this was the reason the newspapers would not cover it (and I don't resile from describing that suggestion as bollocks: it clearly is).

I cannot agree that the "hounding" is ok if done in the pursuit of justice, neenaw. That's an alarming suggestion. As your post implicitly accepts, only evidence matters, not "gossipy misinformation". How Robert Green could have felt that protesting on the steps of the sheriff's court, following him about and naming him to all and sundry as an abuser without evidence was "in the pursuit of justice" I do not understand.

On the other hand, if RG has turned up evidence, he must leave the police and prosecutors to deal with it (with appropriate pressure if they are reluctant, including judicial review if necessary)and not prejudice proceedings against the sheriff or others by self-aggrandising publicity stunts.

Because if now there is or may be enough evidence to bring charges to court then everyone needs to protect the fairness of the trial process. All very well casting allegations at people on the internet but what if they became so widespread a trial was stopped or never started on the grounds no fair trial was possible? That wouldn't be justice for Hollie either. And sceptic I may be, but I want that as much as anybody.

Justice for Hollie, that is.

Regardless of this case, the issue of the abuse of people with Down's is often brushed aside.

I used to work (c2007) at a care home which sent its eight female residents with Down's to a day centre. Two of the residents claimed they had been molested by staff there - so the day centre simply banned them from attending and the care home found them another day centre, warning the new day centre that they were "at risk of making allegations".

Nobody thought to call the police or social services

Firstly, it is not known if there is a "D" Notice on this, as, secondly, it is not allowed to be made public what is and isnt subject to a "D" Notice. That, if you care to look it up, is the law.
It can be proven that Elish Angilioni,since she came to office in June 2000, was in full possession of the facts of this case, a fact she denies in a letter dated November or October 2000 to Robert Green I believe. I have this confirmed by Robert Green in an interview where he states clearly what I have just said. A law firm, Levy and Macrae, is a criminal enterprise which is dealing in keeping the cover-up going by covert means.

PLease see this about the corrupt Scottish legal establishment = www.sacl.info/

Thanks for your time - butlincat =

Lawyer Robert Green and the explanatory videos = http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=7B005E8A8F22A73E
Red Ice Radio on the case with Anne Greig {mother} and Robert Green - http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=1F9018F37E988F26

...some childs welfare may depend on the outcome of many peoplesw efforts to bring these paedophiles to justice.

@EldritchCleavage....I put "hounding " in inverted commas as I don't believe it was but you used the term.

When you try to get justice by the normal route and it doesn't happen then you have to use other means to get it.

If you don't believe that this is a cover up then you won't believe that the normal routes were tried first and failed.

As I also said before, maybe this means that a change in the law is needed or at least something to tighten up certain loopholes.

Getting people to stand up against the establishment is not easy.

I am also involved in helping some families get back children who were legally but immorally taken from them through forced adoption. The way of the law is not always the right one.

There is a huge great carpet with a big lump in it from things being swept underneath.

@OrganicHairbrush.....I am not surprised by this as I have heard many similar stories.

When anyone decides to be a whistleblower, they can find themselves in a very dangerous position, which is why things like this get swept under the carpet.

In order to get justice for Hollie or anyone else, it needs ordinary people to stand up and ask questions.

I, for one, am not willing to sit back and let things happen if I feel I can do something. I couldn't do it alone but I'm part of a huge community and there is safety in numbers.

@EldritchCleavage.......I can understand that you think that the case is perhaps being mishandled but if it weren't for Robert Green, Anne would be back to square one. As a mother and grandmother, I know that if I saw a way to get justice for my daughter I would take the advice I was given.

Thank you for your input into the discussion as it is only through proper clear debate that we can come to our own conclusions.

Solidgolbrass its gagged in Scotland and all the major press have the same Lawyer Levy Macrae who are working for the Scottish Government to block it .The official blog is run by a nutter who changed his mind when his official title was removed,he has suggested that its ok to assisinate MP who vote for Europe .Watkins the blogs writer has
been behind the campaign for the last 3 or so years and has changed from support to total disbelief ,co inciding with Robert greens standing for Aberdeen South

Mr Green is a 62 lay investigator,a brave Englishman who is 62 and has been arrested 3 times for 3 days aster trying to bring this case to a head in Aberdeen.This citizen of the uk cannot be heard any where in the world due to his (heard in camera) bail conitions enforced by,anyone ,Levy Mcrae

He cannot come into Scotland or he will be arrested,cover up
As someone said I dont agree with all that David Ike says but if he points out my house is burning it may be wise to check.

Ok, so what we have here is the case of an abused child (OK it sounds like the girl exists, was abused, but there is insufficient evidence available to convict specific individuals) being siezed on by insane bucketheads and the tinfoil hat brigade who are more interested in PROVING that the government is run by giant alien (child-molesting as well) lizards than anything else.

Actually, I do know there isn't a DA Notice because I've asked someone in RL who is in a position to know. There may well be libel injunctions in place though (there certainly should be).

Have to agree entirely with SGB. I think Hollie is not at the forefront of some supposed campaigners minds-they are just in love with barking conspiracy theories and the thought of themselves as brave mavericks crusading for justice.