to wonder if boys especially really need a dad?

[OctaviaH]

I have a lesbian friend who has just given birth to a ds with her partner. they got pregnant through artificial insemination after a long time trying and i could not be more thrilled for them, but another friend has become very disapproving after she heard it was a boy, as she thinks that boys need a strong male figure in their lives and that the couple are being selfish to raise him without one. i know she has a few very daily-mail opinions but i wonder if there is a nugget of truth in this, i cant speak from direct experience as i am not a male but i know how much of a role model my mum is for me, and my ds absolutely adores his dad and wants to be just like him. Is she right? or should i just ignore her?

I think in an ideal world every child would have a loving and committed father and mother. But this isn't an ideal world. If the little boy has two loving mums he is starting out with a big advantage in life.

IMHO boys need a strong male role model, but that doesn't have to be their dad - granddads, uncles etc can fill that gap.

I think there's been some research which shows that boys are happier/more successful etc if they have a positive male role model involved in their lives. And obviously ideally that would be their father, but my memory of the research (and I wish I could remember the source) is that it didn't have to be the father.

In my experience, boys need to have a male figure in their life to understand what it is to be male. If a father is not around, uncles, male cousins, male teachers, scout leaders etc can help.

I have 3 brothers who doted on our father.

I have 6 year old twin boys and they love to play rough and tumble with DH. They say that they want to be like Dad when they grow up. They don't say that about me. They do say that I am girl though![confuse]

As long as your friend provide male influences in her DS life, he should be OK, especially as he is wanted and loved.

what hassled said

this issue affects lots of mums who are lone parents - around half of non- custodial father lose contact with their children within 2 years

i expect these new mums will just do what all these single mums do - try to have positive male role models in relatives/friends etc

BTW congratulations to your friends

yes i think i agree with fakeplastic trees & hassled. they both have brothers so i guess they'll be around. think friend is kicking up a fuss as she was adopted and thinks knowing where you come from is an integral human right

*the couple have brothers, so little boy's uncles

Well, in a perfect World and all that..

Not all boys who appear to have a Dad really have a Dad. and then of course there's the damage that a BAD father does.

He's not going to be alone, and he's better off than some.

My own son only sees his father once in a blue moon and he can take or leave him. He is very fond of his uncle my brother, and his 'dandad'..

Uncles are great. Uncles won't come and go. Uncles may not trump a decent loving consistently present and actively parenting father but uncles DO trump a half-hearted father and/or a bad father.

Its a tricky question.

My view is that both boys and girls need a good male figure in their life. It does not necessarly have to be a father.

Boys need a man to show them what a good man really is. I also think that girls need a man to show them what to expect of a good man.

My niece and nephew have never had a male figure in their life and both have clearly suffered in diferent ways because of it. I tried a few times to persuade my sister to come and live nearer to us so I could help her out but she wouldn't.

My exh is an awful role model for my two boys, he gave up his job to avoid paying any money, whenever something more interesting comes along he drops them, he has a chip on his shoulder about successful women and I would HATE for them to want to be like him. They don't want to be like him they say thank goodness.

They do tend to attach themselves to their friends' dads and really do enjoy the company of their grandad and uncle. So yes I think you're right that boys do benefit from good male company.

I just wish that more primary schools had male teachers as male role models. DS1 will have his first male teacher next year, so it will be interesting to see how he gets on.

yes i think this is why her viewpoint has stayed in my head actually- all the little boys who don't really have dads through no choice of the mother's. lots of boys in history have had no dads and they seem to turn out fine. dh's dad is alcoholic and so really not around when he was a kid and he used to get sad about it in his teens/early twenties, but he has an older brother who he looks up to and his uncle supported him a lot and dh turned out beautifully. I guess kids are versatile and will find what they need naturally.

I think in an ideal world, it would be nice but this isn't an ideal world. As long as the child is brought up in a secure loving environment, with access to other males, I see no harm. Obviously each case is different though.

Children need both male and female influences in their lives, any child raised in a situation where roughly half the human race is so rarely encountered as to be like a different species of being, will have issues. Children need to be loved by someone, preferably by more than one person, whether or not the loving people are biologically related to them.
A hypothetical little boy raised in a lesbian separatist household would suffer, because he would absorbe the idea that to be male is bad therefore he is bad and undesirable (but that's very hypothetical: a lesbian separatist household would probably not raise a boy), but the son of a single mother (stright or gay) who has a loving grandad/uncle/cousin/other friend will be fine.

I'd go with what Gin4495 wrote. Lots of reasons why a father is not on scene. In my family my Mum was widowed before I reached 10.

I think you need (decent) men in a boys life. Doesnt have to be a dad but a good male influence of some sort.

I can recommend Steve Biddulph's 'Raising Boys'. There is some stuff I dont agree with in it, but he gives very clear reasons for boys needing males in their lives. We have lesbian friends with 2 sons, they recommended this book to me.

Boys need a good man in their lives. they need to see what men do, how men behave. they know from a young age that men and women are expected to be different, and if they only have women to observe, their idea of what it is to be male is likely to be media-led - NOT desirable IMO. They need to see real men doing good things.

I think it depends on the male tbh. Good role models who allow boys to be who they want to be rather than the stereotypical male are invaluable. There are two gender identity perspectives - social learning perspective where children learn how to behave through modelling others behaviour and gender relational perspective which suggests children do the opposite of the what they see the other sex doing. This suggests adult role models aren't as important for gender identity. Having close loving relationships is important though.