to ask everyone to get the name of my country right?

[runnybottom]

Its not "Eire" unless you are speaking/writing in Irish, its Ireland. Its definitely not Southern Ireland. Its not even "Republic of Ireland"

Its just Ireland.

PS> Yes I do realise there a bigger things to worry about, just bugs me a teeny bit is all.

I get what you are trying to say perfectly, rb. I just think its daft trying to police language like that (and a bit nasty to sneer at other people for breaking your rules about using "pretentious" foreign words).

if you address a letter to my grandmother in the Isle of Man ,writing anything other than "British Isles" beneath IOM, you get struck off her mince pie list.

seriously

people quake at the thought

Well I don't think its daft. I think language is all important, shaping thought and influencing behaviour.
The point of my OP though was to point it out to anyone who may not realise the difference, not argue with those who know the difference but don't care.

(and hello, this is mumsnet, the raison d'etre is sneering at somebody for something! )

As I said before, I have to admit to always sniggering inwardly when English people say "Eire" in conversation. I always think where? for a split second before I realise what they're on about. I hadn't thought why before, maybe because no-one else says it (in English) and it always sounds so awkward.

But it certainly doesn't offend me; I'm from Norn Iron anyway (or rather am a citizen of the world) and I don't think I'm being nasty.

I was thinking that as I posted mary, but I haven't a scooby how to put one on!

Éire. I did at least once. Maybe

Bet they pronounce it wrong too.

(its alt gr and the letter, petisa, éíóúá)

bugger higlighting didn't work. People on the Isle of Man hate the term "the mainland" too

to highliight you need to put the asterix before and after everyword

and you need an extra vowel or two otherwise it won't work

As usual with Ireland, I think the background to people disliking the use of Eire in English is deeply political and the original insult forgotton but the hurt kept alive.... I think it was often used by English people to make the point that the island Ireland was partioned and making sure this was not forgotten! Most people I have heard using it much older - 60plus and to be frank, people who haven't a great opinion of the Irish.

Using it on an envelope is different- I found people in GB clueless as to what stamp was needed to post a letter to Ireland, either the republic or Ni, European or first, so I suppose Eire helps. I use to have to insist a european one was needed sometimes....

As for why people in gb should know more about ireland than say Belgium? Well, all this is part of their history and present too! I think it is always a bit shocking for us Irish whose history is so mixed up with the Uk to realize that the level of knowledge in gb about irish history is so bad.

Now, can we move onto taking the soup and the meaning of keeping the O in your surname?

Now, do we want to move on to taking the soup and what keeping the O in your name signifies?

let's move on to taking the soup

what's that about

?

Taking the soup = being a turncoat. The Protestant landlords used to make huge cauldrons of delicious smelling soup to stry to tempt their starving catholic tennants to 'take the soup', which they could only get if they agreed to convert to protestanism. They were then known as soupers and shunned by their neighbours.

Ah yes - admitted once to an Irish colleague in Brussels that some of my Irish ancestors were Catholic and some Proddy and from that day on my entire family were referred to as 'that bunch of soupers'. If my late great aunt Philomena could have heard him his life might have been somewhat foreshortened.

For me it would have been toasted bacon butties.

But what's the O bit? Surely not every Irish surname had an O?

Maryz your dd's teacher is correct. Fadas change the vowel sound, fada means 'long', a vowel sound with a fada is lengthened so it can change the meaning of the word. e.g. Seán is the name (Shaun) but put the fada on the e, (Séan) and the name becomes Shane. Sean, without the fada, is pr 'shan' and means 'old'.

When you asked for the soup, you had to anglsize your name to indicate you would " turn" so John Shea rather than Sean O Shea for example. It's probably more folklore than fact but it is another example of long memories and (over?)sensitivities about the use of language and its importance. Brian Friel's play Translations is brilliant at highlighting this.

Fwiw, I complained to the guardian weekly about their incorrect use of Eire on the cover pricelist (germany wa s not written as Deutschland). Never got a response but they now use ROI....

"Britain isn't a geographical term - Britain is England, Scotland and Wales"

Surely that's exactly what it is then if it's simply a way of referring to the land mass that contains those countries. It's the island of Britain/Great Britain no?
I'm not trying to be antagonising I'm just forgetfull as I haven't thought about it in so long. From my memory it was England = the country, Britain/Great Britain = the island of England,Scotland Wales (just presumed this would be described as a geographical term,if not what is it then?it's not defined as a country or political body is it?) and UK = political nation of Great Britain and N.Ireland

Wow I'm learning so much on this thread! My family are all Protestant so I didn't get the choice to learn Irish at school and know nothing of fadas. As a linguist especially I would have liked to learn Irish. I learnt the soupers thing at school but had forgotten.

But GB is also political and used officially as far as I know. I don't think NI cars display a Gb sticker to give a random example. Geographical terms are generally laden with political subtext in any case.