or just misinformed to think that if the tories get in...

[sevenkeystomysoul]

... single, working parents, like myself, will lose benefits such as HB and tax credits?

I'm not worried tbh, there is no way on earth they could just "do away with" tax credits, without either replacing it with something else or at least increasing the minimum wage a huge amount. To plunge a large amount of they country innediately into poverty would result in huge riots etc.

I'm sure they will cut them for high earners, I have no idea if high earners will actually care or not?

immediately ffs

I can't see how tax credits mask poverty, they pretty much solve it for us.

Tax credits mask the problem that low paid jobs do not cover the basic cost of living - which they should do. The bulk of the problem lies within the cost of housing which has been allowed to spiral out of control.

With regards to Tc's and single parents. David Cameron has always said that it is not about taking away what single parents currently get, it's about making sure that people don't choose to live apart to get more money (this includes both married and unmarried couples - the mini marriage bonus is separate from this change to end the couple penalty).

Hope that helps

It is ignorant to think that people choose to live apart for ''a few ponuds more'' just as it is ignorant to think they will stay together for their £3 per week extra.

As previously said, they say £50k but in actual fact their cuts will effect families of £30k [combined income]. Hope that helps...try reading the newspapers, research etc and you will get the facts and what these mean in reality. Of course people are scared.

In my opinion tax credits do not mask poverty either, they keep me out of it too. You are right about low pay. Labour brought in the minimum wage, another way to help solve the problem, the Conservatives would never have entertained that idea.

By the way, if you resent recieving the tax credits and feel so strongly, why did you claim for them?! I am guessing you are not a single parent family, or a large family or a family having to pay rent instead of a mortgage? Who knows.

And, of course the Conservatives won't give tax credits to more people! How absurbed when they are clearly changing them with a view to ''dismantling them''!

They will not say, lets give that family on £10 much more as we have cut the family on £50. They just will not. It is not their philosophy [Policy].

They want to tackle the deficit by taking from middle earners and taking from the poorer people. That is that and that is how it always has been and will be with them.

It is the same with Labour - who took away the 10% tax rate band and didn't reverse that decision? Who has put NI up twice which impacts on middle income families, and who hasn't raised the tax free allowances or altered the rate bands so that more people get dragged into the 40% band? Not the Tories!

People DO live apart because they can get more on benefits and the system does need an overhaul. It is unwieldy and from the posts on here, manifestly inefficient.

As for paying rent instead of a mortgage - rent is often cheaper than a mortgage, and also as a tenant you do not have the costs associated with the upkeep of the property, or insuring it as the landlord does that.

For those of you who think no one earning over 38k / 50 k or whatever needs tax credits I think the family element (or whatever its called) and childcare element need to be separated.

We earn around 50k leaving us with take home pay after taxes, student loan etc at around £2500. At the moment we pay out £1400 of that a month in childcare leaving us with the income of say one earner of £20,000.

I take full responsibility for my own children and their childcare costs. However my argument is that the support we get now towards these costs (around £500 a month) enables us to both stay in work, pay taxes and progress up the career ladder so that when the children are in school we will both still hopefully have jobs and much better paid jobs. I see it almost as a loan as I in particular with any luck will end up a higher rate tax payer and pay more back than if I had stayed at home these years (if you follow me).

However I fully believe that on our income we need no support whatsoever apart from this childcare support for what is essentially a very limited period in our childrens lives and our tax paying careers. I would gladly give up all tax credits and child benefit once they are in school.

If they take away tax credits and child benefit there will be no point DH going to work as he would be working for a few hundred pounds a month and may as well not bother (I am main wage earner). He would not be a good SAHD and admits that. Essentially I would have to go part time reducing the tax I pay now and in the future as my career would be affected. Which might ironically put us in the income band to claim the non childcare bit

So I think the two elements need to be considered separately (or childcare costs reduced - all tax free would be a start).

I also really worry about the knock on impact of all of this. If childcare support goes surely fewer DC's will go to nursery leading to them shutting down, jobs lost etc. By giving childcare support isnt the parent and the childcare provider and their families and so on.

That was long sorry

peppa I'm really confused as to how 2 wages totalling 50k amount to 30k after tax. So you would like to take other people's money to prop up your lifestlye whilst you race ahead on that infamous career-ladder?

'it was just like he was implying if you're on minimum wage etc and have no savings, no houe etc then obviously you're doing the 'wrong' thing'

Well, exactly - you have summed up conservatism there really

dress it up all they like but what they are about is less 'society' - and for society read SERVICES. Spending cuts is what they are all about and they will do it with gay abandon if they get in

if you don't think ALL parties are going to make huge spending cuts across the board you are deluded.

have you seen what's happening to Greece?

the Greeks are still protesting because they don't want services cut. uh, hello, your country is BANKRUPT.

i mean we can't afford to give pregnant women £125 so they can buy fruit and veg ffs
we can't afford to give every child £250 CTF (and fwiw it's only the bankers who have benefiteed from this ime, my dds CTFs are now worth less than when we started, but the bankers still get their hefty %)

could go on but have to get to work.

Tax credits are already split into two distinct parts; the childcare element and the other one.

Please let us not forget that this tax benefit keeps children out of poverty and thereby increases those childrens lifechances that would otherwise [on balance of probabilities] be far less.

Peppa, you are correct in your post.

Think of jobs that are created from helping with paying for childcare.

In my case half my wage goes on childcare and the other half goes on rent [which, actually where I live would be the same as paying a mortgage]. It annoys me when people argue the mortgage verses renting debate. Rents are sky high and leaves people unable to save for a deposit for a mortgage. It is peoples choice to buy their home and fix it according to their budgets. For most people who rent, it is not a choice it is a nessecity. I am left with enough money to get by to support my children per month.

If the credits were taken away I would be claiming housing benefit, council tax benefit, free school meals and so on. Besides which my childcarers would not have jobs. They and myself would not be able to go to the shops and then the shops would close and then is more unemployment and so on.

To put it in simple terms: costing the state alot more.

Also, I DO not know any couples who live apart to get more money. Would love to hear from any on here?

Also, as a tennant I have always had to maintain properties I have rented. I have to re paint and keep the garden up together and so on. I also pay insurance. At the end of the day, my landlord will have several properties to retire on and a house from me that has been kept in good condition because I care about how I live. I will be paying rent until I die with no security and nothing to pass on and nothing to show for it.

the other parties may well make spending cuts at this point in time because of this unprecendented economic situation; but cuts. no society, lack of public spending is what conservatism IS

There is such a huge difference

and you are deluded if you think it's as simple as 'they will all do the same thing'

ps. I am one of those people who ''won't have the ''RIGHT THING'' in my life according to the Conservatives.

I went to university, have worked all my life, have 2 kids, have a full time job in the public sector but will never be able to save, own my home etc. I am also a single parent so I really have gone terribly wrong . Maybe I will pay for my sins in hell?

Who are these people who do the right thing?

newyorkshire that's a very good point about your renting situation

however I've been thinking lately about what buying will actually give in the long run to me and mine.

If ever DH and I need care as older people that is basically good-bye to any savings we did manage to get (not managed it so far) If we needed residential care then that's goodbye to the house

nothing to pass on etc......unless you are lucky and live a very healthy, cheap old age!

And on this subject, labour are looking towards a national care service which would provide personalised and free care to many. one more reason NOT to vote for lord snooty 'man of the people' Dave.

and will i think mean alot to the older people who I talk to every day in my job as a SW, who are dismayed to realise that any savings they have worked so hard for, are going to haemmorrhage away to the state just so they can be washed, dressed and bathed with some dignity

Benefits don't scare me as much as what they will do to education and the NHS.

Agreed, don't get me started on that one OrmRenewed!!

The problem seems to be that np party will specifically otline exact cuts

I'm a carer and tbh it makes me nervous too; it'd be odd if it didn't tbh.

I doubt i've done the right things either; am a grad but the house was sold to cover debts when DH became very ill, hje's well again now but due to a more ecent redundancy I estimate maybe a decade before we own again (DH having to retrain / work less hours atm)

I am a carer for disabled children X2 and although there are pledges to support carers I have yet to persuade the local social services that autism is a qualifying disability (despite getting DLA for both), usually they are the arbiters of such provision. I had hoped to be working in the next year but the children seem to developing addtional issues at a rate of knots so am already over subscribed time-wise to the hospital for the immediate future. It would be cruel to ask that of an employer in all honesty- for example next week I would need three days off.

I have a strong political ideology that doesn't match the Conservative one anyway, but I have had sleepless nights worrying that there will be even more gaps for us to fall through in a more prescriptive Conservative society. I don't think I will vote Labour (always leave it until last minute to decide) but there are attractions for the more vulnerable in a maintenance of status quo I think.

I was listening to the debate in the car the last time and also picked up on that 'people who do the right thing'. I raised my eyebrows more than a few times.

I do not trust David Cameron at all. I can't stand this conservative crappy view that people who earn a lot of money are more worthy than those who don't which is what it boils down to.

There is a thinly veiled view that some people are worth more than other people and that it doesn't then matter what happens to the people in the latter group - they don't count. This is what conservatism is all about and it has, in the past poisoned enough people's minds that they still express these kind of views today about people they think are 'no good', therefore 'don't count'. I hear it all the time.

Agreed Sleepingsowell, YET another reason to not vote for ''man of the [wealthy] people''.

Oh- as for TC's not so easy to just do away with really, as before them (and even under tories) we had family credit (extra cash for low paid famillies) and it also delviers disability support and IS forr children.

Look at it this way though:

Peoples TC's vanish

Who gets hit hardest after the famillies?

Thos providing services, their landlords etc

That would filter in Tory heartlands I think

And I am certain Davey Boy realises this

The only thing worse than not dragging ourselves out of current financial sit is creating a society where nobody can afford to work and everyone (below quite a high level anyway) needs social housing: prices rose in synch with TC's (rents doubled in my area) and all aprties know this