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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

for thinking people are very sexist towards secretaries

45 replies

AliGrylls · 26/04/2010 10:15

The reason why I am posting is because I am continually frustrated about how sexist people are towards secretaries.

People assume that if you choose to do it as a job you are a bit thick (okay we are not going to get any awards for our intellect). Also, people have said to my face "yes, it is a perfectly good job for a woman". My usual response to this is that men did not think so before the first world war - in fact it was considered quite a respectable job for a man without a university education. Even many women have this attitude.

I think what really irks me is the stereotype of a seccie sitting filing her nails and can barely spell her own name. DH says in his experience the stereotype has been true - he has come across quite a few secretaries who are like this and are a bit hopeless. I just think they are the few that give the job a bad reputation and in most cases our bosses would not be able to survive without their seccie to sort out their clients and diaries.

I am curious to know what people on here think about their secretary or if they have had any experience of this.

Basically, AIBU for thinking the attitude towards being a secretary is a load of bollocks and that the problem is that people make far too many assumptions about it being a rubbish job.

OP posts:

ImSoNotTelling · 26/04/2010 10:21

I thought that secretaries were called PAs these days?

the thing I disliked about it in my old work was the way that the men saw having a pretty young female PA as part of their perks and a display of seniority IYSWIM. Being able to choose your own PA and choosing a fit one was one of the things about being a manager that was much envied/aspired to.

They also seemed to like bossing the female ones around but didn't feel quite as comfortable with the (one and only) male PA we had for a bit.

ImSoNotTelling · 26/04/2010 10:23

I don;t think that people in general view being a PA as a shit job though - AFAIK it is hard work with a lot of responsibility and well paid.

Is it just the boss type people who are treating you like crap - I think that's part and parcel of teh job isn't it?

Tiredmumno1 · 26/04/2010 10:24

Actually being a secretary takes a lot of organisational skills, and can be a really hard job at times. a man or woman could do the job, just like every other job. it just depends what skills you have and what you can handle. maybe the people who you speak of should do the job for a week and then see what they have to say about it. they will then realise its not as easy as it looks.

porcamiseria · 26/04/2010 10:27

It really depends. In some firms, the Exec PA is well respected and is seen as the acess route to the CEP/MD. Also many handle work ovcer and above mere filing/travel stuff.

I have certainally come across some dragons in my time (and there is nothing wrong with dragons)

I agree tho that it is primarily a female role

Also noone refers to them as secretaries any more? not in business in 2010? PA surely.

So I think if you are a hard worker, have a good boss (this is KEY) and have aptitiude its not that bad a job

expatinscotland · 26/04/2010 10:30

'Seccie'. Ugggh. That's a cringeworthy term.

ImSoNotTelling · 26/04/2010 10:33

Actually just thought - that there are secretaries - medical secretaries and legal ones and so on. But they have a lot of skill 0 they have to know all the jargon etc.

i don't know anyone apart from the boss types and twattish men who have this stereotyped view of "secretaries".

Original poster

AliGrylls · 26/04/2010 10:39

Is it always called PA now? In my old job description the job was called Legal Secretary. If it is I will just say I was a PA.

See this is my point though, it does require organisational skills and also good people skills. And why do men see it as being something they would not want to do?

Maybe it is in my head but I think a lot of people see it as a job that is easy and, as Imsonottelling says, the men who employ seem to think having an attractive PA / Secretary is part of the job. One of DHs friends said that secretaries should be like potplants - for decoration. How sexist is that? I was not there at the time but the attitude really winds me up.

OP posts:

skihorse · 26/04/2010 10:41

YANBU - Temping as a secretary paid my way through uni - Yep, there are silly 'stereotypical' girls but to be a good secretary/PA takes some skill.

I remember one girl telling me I was very 'masculine' because I knew how to save a document to the C drive! It was 1998... but even so!

Original poster

AliGrylls · 26/04/2010 10:54

skihorse - that is actually quite amusing in a pathetic kind of a way.

I am glad nobody thinks I am being completely mad. Maybe it is just the people I know who have this attitude. But then if it is, why don't more men do it? It is a bit like nursing in that regard, although nursing was never a job that was dominated by men and is now considered a "woman's job".

OP posts:

Habbibu · 26/04/2010 10:58

Received wisdom in HE depts that I've wworked in were that they only people not to cross were the secretaries, as they were the ones who could make everything run smoothly in the dept. The one I liked the best had this on her door...

azazello · 26/04/2010 11:05

I have had a number of secretaries who wanted to called secretaries (am a solicitor). Most have been fabulous - sorting out travel arrangements/ train and hotel bookings for business travel plus all typing and correspondence, filing etc and occasionally tidying my desk .

However, I have also had a couple of pretty awful ones e.g. one who did my (male) boss's work first because he was the most senior person in the team even if I had something urgent and he didn't and another one who wanted to chat to me and the other female assistant solicitors because we were 'all girls together'. While that was true, we were also busy and already looking at long days so stomping off being cross that we didn't want to chat all afternoon was not helpful.

My mum is also a solicitor and her PA is marvellous.

Cloudbase · 26/04/2010 11:14

I work in the NHS and mostly they are pretty well respected, but some of the older consultants can be a very sexist - One that I work with, is lovely, charming, excellent doctor, but came in to ask me if I had any printer paper, as "The typing pool have gone home". Typing Pool???? Each of the 3 consultants have a named secretary who have worked there for years!

I am also in NHS admin, and the same grade as the medical secretaries, but because (I presume) I don't have the word secretary in my job title, I am treated with more respect than they are - shocking really.

CiderIUpAndSetIFree · 26/04/2010 11:18

yanbu - it's one of those roles that in some industries is having real trouble shaking off the awful 50's stereotype of dollybird / office wife who 'looks after' the powerful (male of course) boss.

I temped a lot after I got my degree, so have a vast and rich experience of being patronised in many different industries. IME a proper assistant/secretarial role is bloody hard work, and requires a wide range of skills to do it really well.

I've been out of that side of things for a while though, so it's depressing to hear that attitudes aren't improving. My experience was that some industries were a lot more archaic than others, for example:

the worst for archaic practices and miserable working environments was law

engineering, manufacturing and construction tended to be more laid back (and often very inefficient), but utterly sexist in culture

local government fairly archaic, but a bit better in terms of sexism and opportunities for advancement

financial services varies a lot, can be dreadful but also reasonably efficient and not too sexist

creative industries like media, design and entertainment tend to have more fluid staff structures, but aren't always a bed of roses either due to 'difficult' personalities

catering and hotel management is one of the least sexist industries ime (but dreadful long hours and low pay)

more modern industries like software can have an almost bearable company culture

management consultancy isn't sexist in that there are quite a few women in senior positions, however they are the WORST for working underlings really hard and treating them like shit

Doodleydoo · 26/04/2010 11:25

Skihorse - I also temped through Uni and it paid so much better than working in a bar!

It also irritates me as most companies have a secretary who without them the business would not function correctly! They are the heart and soul of a good company and you are right they gain access to the right people and can smooth things over without causing more issues that could get out of hand!

I worked as a "PA" after 9/11 when I had been away and although not my first choice of career (I don't have lofty ambitions in the least but I have a specific interest that I wanted to follow with a very small amount of availability iykwim) it has got me through the bad times. I have often thought of becoming a virtual PA now that I have a dd, I have also transcribed books for people and although it is a bit of a pita it can be quite therapeutic. It has been the best fall back job for me as there is nothing that I can't do due to this skill that I have gained. Have to say though that the PA job I had after 9/11 was the worst possible job in the world.......I worked for the biggest bitch out there who expected me to do things like her kids homework which I found most irritating as I was working for a company as the PA for the division not her slave, however you live and learn and you do and make do - besides the money was great and the holidays even better!!!!!

(I had a look at some pa jobs that were online and some were amazing with private jets etc being the norm although you were on call for 24 hours per day and this was pre recession!)

ImSoNotTelling · 26/04/2010 11:27

What some people fail to realise is that a good PA can command an absolutey humungeous salary.

People who look down on any type of work are twats IMO. Can't stand people who judge others based purely on pay level/perceived cache of job. Shortsighted snobbish fools.

lolapoppins · 26/04/2010 11:29

I used to be a receptionist. Try that job if you want to be made to feel thick everyday of your working life.

expatinscotland · 26/04/2010 11:32

As a skilled legal secretary in the US and in Edinburgh, I earned more money than many other jobs people found more 'professional'.

Doodleydoo · 26/04/2010 11:32

Receptionists and PA's are the gatekeepers to the company imo and are solid gold - at least in the company that I work for they are, our receptionist has been here for 30 years and the ceo pa has been here for 28. So the job can't be all that bad can it - and I hasten to add are both revered!

expatinscotland · 26/04/2010 11:33

I agree, lola! I did reception work at university and it was bollocks. People really treat you like something on the bottom of their shoe in that job.

I agree with Cider's assessment, too.

ImSoNotTelling · 26/04/2010 11:35

Yes that's true doodleydoo.

Have the wrong people on reception, switchboard, working as PAs, giving the wrong impression of the company, and you're had it before you've even started.

At least in my old company, while the PAs were thought of as eye candy, they were also extremely professional and good at their jobs and pretty well paid.

So they were respected for their skills.

But they had to be pretty and they had to jump when the boss man barked.

skihorse · 26/04/2010 11:35

lola God I loved working reception! You are the eyes and ears of the entire organisation!

Doodley Too right, in the mid-90s I was taking home 8 quid an hour, my uni mates were making 2-3 in some cases.

I mostly enjoyed my secretary days apart from the one man who kept accidentally dropping his pen and asking me to pick it up. I'm giggling as I type that because it's such a stereotype!

expatinscotland · 26/04/2010 11:36

Oh, and when I was working reception one of the other gals had been a flight attendant.

She said that was even worse!

ihaveaquestion2010 · 26/04/2010 11:36

Me too! I was a receptionist in a University for a while and got so much crap, especially from students.

expatinscotland · 26/04/2010 11:38

'Me too! I was a receptionist in a University for a while and got so much crap, especially from students.'

I was a department secretary at a university and used to get crap from students.

And about 80% of the time, after they graduated with their music degrees, I'd see them in town - in shops working retail, behind a bar where I went with friends or taking my order in a restaurant.

Oh, how I laughed.

Seabright · 26/04/2010 11:51

I have two secretaries, who are share with others. One is great, very capable, and the other less so. I dread the days when she decides to "use her initiative".

I think it's no different to other jobs, you get good ones and no-so good ones.

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