to resent being labelled atheist..

[melondrama]

cos the whole thing is nowt to do with me! i'm not religious, don't have the gene. of course i respect anyone's right to their faith as long as they keep it to themselves!
but i dislike being told i must refer to myself as an atheist

Tinitus - Are you a dentist? If you aren't then you ARE a non-dentist. I could call you that with absolute accuracy.

crikey ooj, did you have to complicate things

Atheists don't believe. Agnostics aren't sure. That's close enough and good enough, yes?

I think that Gnostics have a very specific belief set about the illusory nature of reality and often believe that the true God did not create the universe. To start referring to anyone who has direct experience of God as a Gnostic is going to get very confusing, as that is not who the term currently refers to.

I dislike the term agnostic. It implies that I don't know if there is a God and so might be interested in being informed on the subject because I am fence sitting and someone else's input might help me come to a decision. When in fact I am simply not interested in the supernatural.

I think it is less controversial to say that you are not religious. That is what is usually required on forms. There is a box saying no religion.

JustmyTwoPenceworth - No, because that is not what those words mean. Agnosticsm has nothing to do with belief.

If you don't believe in a god you are an atheist.

MillyR - I'm not using Gnostic in the sense of Gnosticsm, but in the sense of Unagnostic/ I agree it is confusing - maybe I should have said Unagnostic.

weloveyoumisshannigan
ooojimaflip

Thank you for entirely missing the point, (something I run it to a lot on the MN god threads)

I don't REFER to myself as a non dentist be cause it does not define me. being a anti theist does not define me. It would be nonsense to deny that I am both.

This was my criticism of the other religious thread - we never get out definitions tied down tightly enough before we get started.

Tinnitus - I don't think ANYTHING 'defined' anyone other than there physical extent and position in space. The OP didn't say defined, they said labelled as. Atheist and non-dentist are appropriate and accurate labels for you. They don't define you any more that the colour of your pants.

I think that the statements:-

"I don't believe in god but I don't want to be called an atheist"

and

"I believe in equal rights for women but I am not a feminist"

both mean

"I think the same as that lot over there about some things, but I don't want you to think that I have anything else in common with those total wankers"

I don't understand the doesn't define me arguement. I am lots of things that don't define me but it doesn't make them less true.

If the OP was made to sit at a atheists only table by herself at a party with a label around her neck then I can see why she is irked. I would like to know who has told her she must refer to herself as an atheist and under what circs

fair enough. So someone who isn't sure and has an open mind is a?

Just trying to get my head round this, because I have it so deeply rooted atheist = no god agnostic = no idea

but agnostic doesn't mean unsure, waiting for proof? It means there is no evidence?

[thicko emoticon] what's the difference?

Atheist/Theist - what you believe
Agnostic/Unagnostic - whether you require proof.

ok, I've read your posts several times and I get it now

And now I know I'm a Theist Agnostic

But if it comes up in conversation, I'll just continue to say I believe in God. It's easier.

Much easier;)

I think I may very well know where you're coming from, OP. I don't like to be labelled "atheist" because it's a definition about what you don't believe in (all negative), rather than what you do believe in (something positive). Also, I rather resent the idea that I have to have a label at all (which, ime, many religious people will insist on you accepting).

I call myself Humanist, if pressed, because it's about believing in the good things that people can do and have done. There are lots of things in the Humanist movement that I don't quite embrace, but I love the over all positive outlook of it.

ooojimaflip

I think we have had all this before. You take the obvious truisms stated by people, and repeat them back as a counter argument. That is not debate, it is the equivalent of "Yo Mama".

I think you just want to argue for its own sake.

Tinnitus - No I just want rigour in the argument. If you don't believe in god you are an atheist. This is a function of the definition of the word atheist and the properties on language. Any suggestion that this defines anyone only comes from you.

If you want to talk about the baggage that comes with the word, the fact that people may attribute other characteristics to you if you admit this one etc. that is a different discussion.

Tinnitus - If you think I'm missing your point can you restate? Because I am a bit lost otherwise.

The problem with being called an athiest is that people will then say, 'well athiests believe XYZ' when XYZ is some belief that is totally unrelated to not believing in God. For example, athiests believe in evolution or athiests believe in moral relativism. But they don't. They an entirely disparate group of people who have no more in common than all non-dentists have in common. But some people try to make athiests into some kind of movement or social group, in the way that religious groups are. That clearly isn't possible.

MillyR - I completly agree.

Well said, MillyR.

Ah - been directed here from the other thread.

I get what you're saying OP. As someone who never had any religion so haven't had anything to reject I wonder if Athiest is the right description for me.

Maybe other people have a weird idea of what Atheism is? A bit like feminism?

DuelingFanjo - I don't think there is - by dictionary definition if you don't believe in god you are an atheist. You could probably add a modifier if you want to say more about it - 'disinterested atheist'? 'non-religous atheist'?

And yes I think there are weird ideas about Atheism as with Feminism.