AIBU to think that living a hyper clean lifestyle can damage dc's immune system

[CagedBird]

I was just thinking this today as I tapped my ds' back as he vomitted into a bucket.

When ds was first born I was hyper vigilant/clean/anti-bacterial. everything was always sterilised, anti-bacterialised. His face/hands were always wiped clean. he was bathed every single day. Anytime his clothes got a speck of dirt on they were changed (a whole heap of washing). Floor was hoovered 5 times a day, not allowed to eat of anybody else's plate or use cutlery if it hadn't been at least boiled. If I caught him eating another child's apple or drinking from their cup I was over there in a second to take it off him. Vitamin drops every day etc. etc.

Fast forward two years to dd's arrival, by now I'd gone almost completely in the other direction, mostly because I didn't have the time, I was knackered I was back working after 2 weeks (cm). Nothing got sterilised (just washed with everything else), hands and face always grubby. Bathed twice a week or so. Clothes changed once or twice a day (day clothes/night clotes) unless vomitted on or soiled. Floor hoovered once or twice a day if that. If she ate some body elses anything unless they were upset I left her too it.

The difference in both of the children are remarkable. Truly. Ds has eczema/asthma and catches almost every bug. DD, never really has anything. Rarely even a cough. The only major things she has had were chickenpox and hand and mouth. Ds has the vomitting and diaorrhea (spelling) bug at least once a year and coughs every couple of months. Dd hasn't had it once.

I also b/fed dd 2 months longer putting her straight onto cows milk whereas ds stopped at 8 months and went on to formula.

AIBU thinking that living in a sterilised environment produces children with a lower immunity or are my dc's an odd case.

I agree entirely.

Neither of my dc are often ill, neither have allergies or intollerances. They are pretty robust kids despite both being premature.

I only bath them twice a week, if they wanted to teeth on a flip flop or eat somthing that had been dropped on the floor, fine. Kids are supposed to me mucky litle oiks.

Kids need germs to get their immune system working. They also need to get ill occasionally.

I find obsessive anti-bacterialising very strange. It does more harm than good.

My parents lost a son at 9 months, 55 years ago, my mother had been like you with her first, they were travelling to Singapore, and the stopover in those days was Karachi, the baby picked up gastroenteritis, and tragically died two days after reaching Singapore. The doctor told them my mother had been too clean with him. (great thing to say to parents who had just lost their first born)

But as a result, my Mother, always held a great respect for what she called 'clean' bugs.

The following 4 children, we each had the usual childhood illnesses, but that was about it.

Like you I am a CM, and when my father now sees me cleaning things with antibac all the time he still tells me I shouldn't.

I think you have to be careful not to blame yourself for something which may just be down to the way your ds and dd are made. Yes, it's possible, but don't let yourself think that it's something you did wrong!

But yes, I do think there is something to it - my MIL used to be married to an egyptian man and visited his family in Egypt regularly. The grandmother was a matriarch, and the house was always full of cousins, grandchildren, visiting relatives and plenty of kids. She purposely washed the kitchen floor only once a month, and the kitchen was the hub of the house and always full of babes crawling around. It's a tradition, to build up immunity. SOunds gross but makes sense in the light of your question I suppose!

My dad is a cheif environmental health officer and he always says we need "good" germs around us to build up immune systems, they don't kick in until there's something there to work against fi you see what I mean so all these anti bac stuff that kills 99.9% of germs are actually doing us a disfavour - children need dirt and exposure to germs to be healthy!

I am a terrible housekeeper, and I am very against anit-bacterial anything...there is some evidence to suggest that superbugs are partly because we are too sterile. That said, my two DCs really never get ill. They only have a bath a few times a week (but that's more because hot water really irritates their skin if we do it more often), and I sort of give the kitchen floor a swirl with a brush once a day (maybe). I don't know...maybe there is a little bit of truth to it, OP...but you were doing it to PROTECT your DC...it's nothing to be upset about.

I don't know, but until recently I've been very relaxed around dd (15 months) and she has been putting everything in her mouth-sand from the sand pit, crumbs from under the sofa, a snail- and I laughed and said 'o it'll strengthen her immune system.

But she is just getting over the worst tummy bug- think explosive diarrhoea for the last 10 days. I am going to be much more vigilant with the dettol and careful over what she puts in her mouth.

That's really interesting and I totally agree with you. I think we are too clean nowadays! My DD was washed, bathed, wiped, everything sterilised, and DS had quite frankly nothing like that, I was too busy running round after toddler DD!

I have pals who are hyper clean and their kids get the usual loads of bugs and colds; and I have pals who are quite lax with the vacuum and their kids seem healthier.

Although I have noticed that the latter children get different bugs like conjunctivitis and ear infections, but they've never had chickenpox etc.

Probably not related anyhow!

I don't agree personally. I think it may be co-incidence. I think there are personal limitations and boundries to our cleanliness as adults but I don't think the same applies to babies who are reliant on us to guide them.

What I mean is, I wouldn't like to lick a wheel of a pram so why is it acceptable for a baby to because they need to "build up" their immune systems? I don't think dropping an item of food on the floor and eating it is the end of the world, but if they pick it up and it is covered in hair or dirt, again I wouldn't put it in my mouth so I wouldn't expect a child to. Gastric infections can be dangerous for babies and I would want to avoid them as much as possible.

Covering everything in anti-bac? No I don't think that is helpful at all, soap and water all the way for me. But licking shoes, eating dirt/ mud stuff like that I personally wouldn't as I don't feel it is particularly helpful.

My oldest DS was born in a Tropical third world country, where you can´t even drink the water (and can get sick from the air). It was hard when he was a baby! He was sick a lot, especially gatsroenteritis bugs.

So he defo had lots of exposure to germs, yet, he is very highly allergenic and has bad eczema.

It´s genetic. That still means one DC can get it, and it´s brother or sister won´t.

It´s not anyone´s fault. Being too hygienic doesn´t cause your child´s eczema or allergies if he wouldn´t have the genetics for it in the first place.

PS, I hoover only once or twice a week

I'm just impressed you're still vacuuming twice a day! I barely manage twice a week!

Seriously though, I think balance in all things. I was much more careful when they were tiny, but as they grew got more relaxed about it. I don't worry too much about them getting grubby, sharing drinks with other kids etc. But I'm still strict about washing hands after the loo, after touching animals etc. You just have to be sensible without being obsessive IMO.

It's true that genes have a role to play but me and dh have always been so "luckily" healthy in terms of catching things it's always poor ds who gets stuff. Then again dh's brothers are always coming down with this allergy or that, and this bloody bug or whatever and the eczema and asthma run in his family not mine but I'm just feeling a bit bad that he's got this bloody bug again.

There are scientific studies that show that children who grew up with older siblings and pets have a stronger immune system than those who did not.

It is the hygiene paradox - the cleaner you are, the fewer germs your children get exposed to. The immune system does not get a work out and instead of attacking foreign germs, it starts to attack itself - hence the explosion in auto-immune conditions such as asthma and allergies in modern times.

Too much hygiene has also been linked to increased childhood leukemia in developed societies.