to suggest school changes this system?

[chaostrulyreigns]

OK then:

DD1 is in Y6. Whenever they do any maths (fgs -numeracy) tests or work that is not teacher marked, the pupils mark their own papers.

One girl on DD's table always manipulates her answers and therefore increases her score by 2 or 3 points each time (usually out of 30).

Now I know that it doesn't really matter as obviously much of their work is teacher assessed and therefore a true reflection of her abilities will be gleaned then. The girl is very bright (although maths is not her strength). I have told DD that the other girl can not be able to feel truly content with herself as she knows she's cheating.

What I'm asking is does it really matter?

My plan was to approach school and suggest that papers are swapped with other pupils on the table (as I remember from my school days), but I am concerned that this would result in a slight raise in the disruption in the class.

Sorry long post but AIBU to report this to school, obviously naming no names?

The teacher probably knows already and tbh would probably not appreciate a parent interfering in the day to day running of her lessons. Most likely it's not a school policy of how to do it, just the way this particular teacher likes to do things. In the long run, I'd say it doesn't really matter and certainly doesn't have an impact on your daughter's work.

I'm a maths teacher and I have the kids mark their own work - however - when I mark their books, it is BLINDINGLY obvious who has "manipilated " their answers. These things get noted and mentioned at parents evening .

How does your dd know this happens every time unless she is aware of her answers before and after marking.
She seems far more worried over someone elses answers than her own, don't really see what it has to do with you or have I missed the point, does she get a higher mark than your daughter.

I'm sure the teacher will have spotted it.

the OPs DD is concerned because the other kid is blatantly cheating and changing her answers as she marks them, so that she is able to say she got more than she did when the teacher asks for their scores.

i would mention it,on the grounds that it is demoralising to the majority who KNOW it is wrong to manipulate their answers like this, but feel that their honesty is not doing them any favours

but yes, come the tests/exams etc, she will be found out, so she is not doing herslf any favours long term. hopefully OPs DD is sensibile enough to see that

Thanks POWN think you have summed it up well.

DD and other girl sit opposite each other on table. DD is very good at maths, but less so at english and other girl is vice versa. They have both passed to the local grammar school. Other girl has been quite scathing over DD's maths scores in a manner that has caused DD to feel very uncomfortable about her own abilities.

DD sees scribbling and changing of answers as the answers are called out by the teacher.

I have explained about the lack of benefit of 'cheating' as I have always taught that behaving in a manner that is true to oneself is the only way to contentment, and that feeling sorry for the other girl is the best attitude rather than anger.

Good point about teachers being able to spot telltale signs in the workbook.

Maybe I should leave it.

Agree that the teacher will probably be aware of the issue. I would focus on building up your DD's self-esteem about maths, emphasise that she is not competing with others- she is competing with herself in that she should be aiming to improve her score. I would consider mentioning the issue to her teacher in passing, not asking her to change the way she works, but just say that it is making your DD unhappy. Does the teacher actually collect the scores in, or do the children just compare amongst themselves? If the scores have to be read out, or if there is any kind of reward based on the scores then it is more of a problem IMO.

Thanx Pozzled. It think it's bothering DD as she has a very strong sense of right and wrong and understands that this is out of order.

I take your point about not suggesting change of strategy as that's not really my position to do so.

I'm not sure if the scores are collected, but think some may be.

I think OG is just very competitive and just isn't keen on the fact that DD always get higher maths scores, hence the sarky comments when results are revealed.

Feel a bit carp really as girls should really be each other's comfort zone at senior school.

I would just explain to your DD that the cheating DD is only hurting herself in the long run. She is very immature, you learn by your mistakes, and when it comes to tests that really matter she will not be marking her own.

*chaos - at DS1s school the children mark each others maths tests. That stops children changing their own answers. Problem is that children sometimes mark each others work incorrect when the answers are correct answer.

DS1 is similar to your DD. He has a very srong sense of what is prper and little thngs like this upset him a lot too.

Have a word with the teacher - this is causing friction.

Yep I think that I will have a very quiet word but not give her suggestions. that's not the right protocol I'm sure.

It just makes me cross that OG makes DD feel uncomfortable about her own acheivements. . I will work on skills with her to not let it affect her.

Thanks.

your dd should feel proud that she gets her scores truthfully and honestly without having to resort to cheating. What a pity the other girl feels the need to do this for whatever reason as you say she is bright anyway.

I agree the teacher is probably already aware of it. Self marking is very common especially in the older years, and there will always be someone who uses this opportunity to manipulate their score, I would leave well alone and concentrate on praising your daughter for not only being very bright but honest too!

As a teacher I prefer self-marking to swapping marks as there are a few in my class who will mock the other child's score or even mark lower out of spite. Also it creates a lot of arguing over whether marks are correct or not, normally a product of just not listening. I bet it would be worse if this other girl was marking her paper! Encourage your daughter not to share her marks and explain to this girl she doesn't want to discuss marks with her as she sees it as personal. It's easy to spot cheaters in class, the tell-tale rubber smudgings and crossings are a give away plus how long thy take to mark. I simply circle false marks in red and ignore them, having a word with child or parents later. I wouldn't get involved yourself, but there's nothing wrong with your daughter telling the teacher in a quiet moment without anyone else knowing so the teacher knows to keep an eye.

I would guess that the teacher is well-able to organise her own class herself without "help" from you.

My children mark their own work in coloured pencil, all normal pencils are put away first! Any changes to the answers are quickly spotted

In my class children often self mark but in a different colour. If anyone is going to bring this up with the teacher it should be your DD as she is the one who is feeling hard-done-by. I imagine the teacher knows exactly what's going on though...

I agree with strawberrycake, swapping books to mark causes endless problems.

I was just going to add that mine mark with a different colour, after putting pencils in trays.
We also swap and mark, but everyone has the right of appeal.