Nannys refusing tax/NI

[tennisnovice]

I'm searching for the perfect person to look after my precious kids. But everyone I interview seems to think that I am crazy to insist on paying tax & national insurance. Isn't this the law? They will only consider a net salary and seem to think that if I want to pay tax & NI then that is up to me, nothing to do with them......their last employer gave them cash in hand and didn't worry about all that pesky tax stuff. I'm not comfortable committing a crime but these guys make me feel I'm nuts! Am I?

At a guess they are either foreign so feel they can stay under the radar/maybe working illegally.

They want you to pay them net what you want to pay gross

Don't want to register

Yes, they are mostly foreign, but have also had "home grown" candidates who offered to keep signing on so that I could pay them cash!! Not the kind of work ethic I'm used to.

yanbu.
They are asking you to commit a crime, for which you could face charges.
Stick to what you know is right

Do it the right way - you never know when it might come back on you.

daysoftheweek - As for assuming only foreigners break the tax laws... I know more foreigners who pay their taxes but aren't entitled to any of the benefits of other locals who have never contributed a penny to taxes, than foreigners who don't pay their taxes...

i've never had a nanny who tried this... i've always paid the tax/ni for them though - i think nannytax etc work out tax/ni for either a net or gross wage though, (i used to pay mine x amount net and nannytax worked out how much tax/ni etc i needed to pay on top of that)

it was always very simple. never had a problem... i'd avoid breaking the law if i were you. can't see that i'd particularly want my kids brought up by someone trying to dodge taxes lol.

some nannys do want to be self-employed for some reason though - so if this is the case (ie they are sorting their own taxes) then i'd get this written into their contract (and them to sign it, obviously.) You really don't want to end up attempting to argue that she was supposed to pay her own tax if it turns out none was paid...

Is a nanny not self employed?, if so she has the right to refused, and take up her own NI and tax at the end of the financial year, where nannies and childminders do their own tax returns.

Also nannies and child minders have their own set of class 2 NIC.

In general nannies can't be self employed unless they are working on temp jobs for a number of people

Childminders are self-employed but nannies very rarely meet the criteria for self employment (they cannot choose their own hours, etc).
If you don't pay the NI and tax it's the employer who gets the £3k fine etc. And since you will be trusting the nanny with kitty money you want someone honest.
I would keep looking!

Yanbu at all. There are very few nannies who can be SE and those who can will have multiple families, shifting hours and don't have to come to work every week so in theory could decide they were taking 6 weeks holiday 2 weeks after starting.

Some, particularly A2 nationals, don't understand the tax situation and want to be self-employed because they know their yellow card says they can be. Other people, no matter what nationality, are just dishonest.

Are you looking for odd days/hours which would fit with other nanny jobs? Or just wouldn't make a full-time job?

frakkinnuts, sorry but I think your comment is somewhat a sweeping generalization, not all nationals who have a "yellow card" are committing a crime or even think they are above th law with this said "yellow card"!

You dont have to pay any NI or tax if your earning's are below £5,715.

I think your comment is downright beyond ignorant tbh.

I am completely ignorant to this, so apologies, but what is the difference between a nanny and a childminder?

I also had no idea that you were expected to pay ni and tax as I assumed they took care of that theirselves!

OP why dont you find an agency to send you possible candidates that way at least you can be sure that they have been wetted with regards to work permits etc. IF you ensure the agency knows that you wish to pay tax and NI (and yes you should) then you wont have this issue happen again and can concentrate on getting the right nanny for your family..

and YNBU

Actually what I was meaning was that they are trying to keep on the right side of the law. They know they have a yellow card and can legally be self-employed so they don't want to take a job which they need to be employed for in case they get into trouble. What they don't understand is that most nannies wrt tax can't be self-employed. They think they're proposing a win-win situation but they're not, not through any intentional dishonesty but through ignorance.

The yellow-card/SE thing only applies to A2 nationals who cone with the colour coded worker registration certificates, hence they're particularly likely to propose this arrangement. A2 worker registration certificates

It's not at all about being above the law. Quite the opposite. It's about ignorance on their part and previous employers who've let them be SE.

And as I said other people are dishonest, implying that the previous statement wasn't at all about dishonesty.

At the simplest a nanny works for one family (or two families in a share) in their home, caring for those children only. More detailed: They are employed, have set hours, statutory holidays, sick pay and carry out duties directed by their employer.

Childminders work from their own home caring for children from as many different families as they want/their registration allows. They are able to choose their own rates, holidays, rules, routines and duties but don't get sick pay etc. They must be registered with OFSTED.

As for the ignorant part I used to do advice work so while I admit I don't know all the latest changes, particularly in immigration and employment legislation, I do know the significance of colour coded worker registrations and A2 access to the labour market. It's a fairly common problem, so much so it was actually used as an example in a training session - legitimately SE A2 cleaner starts doing a bit if nannying for one client then wants to move onto a nanny job, prospective employer turns round and says 'we need to employ you', A2 national says 'I can't be employed but I can be SE, I already do my own tax and pay NI, I can carry on doing that'. Both parties are happy, right? Until HMRC come along and fine the employer, demand back payments and decide the A2 national is working outside the terms of their certificate. The problem is people don't know the potential ending to the story.

Hi there, I myself am a nanny, and the way it works is nannies work on a net salary basis but that does not mean that we don't have to pay tax and national insurance.
My employers use a company called 'nanny tax' who take care of the financial side of it all for us. even though they are both accountants they swear by them. they are also very good for any type of nanny pay advice, worth contacting them.
When discussing the net salary with your potential nanny keep in mind what the gross salary will be as that is what you pay.
Its a funny way to do it, as it does make it sound like nannies don't pay tax and NI but we do, we are just used to discussing salary on a net basis. Don't know why we need to be different as it doesn't actually make any difference!
Hope that helps a little.

There I find your insinuation that I am in some way racist extremely offensive

You don't even need to read my post that carefully to see that I don't even mention the word tax the net/gross thing has been common to several nannies I looked at.

Nowhere do I suggest that only foreigners don't pay tax (I do have several posts about self-employed and directors avoiding tax though)

dh is foreign too

(oh but he pays tax)