to be outraged that a representative from Starbuck's..

[seeker]

...came to my dd's school as the main speaker in Fair Trade Fortnight??

I think you are being rather unreasonable here.

Starbucks do have a major corporate and social responsibility programme, and in the US are widely seen as a very socially responsible, 'good', business. Americans tend to be rather taken aback that Starbucks is seen as a baddie in the UK.

I don't think it's a problem either

Morris
How can local cafes compete with the sheer spending power of a starbucks? They can run their stores at a loss if necessary, for as long as it takes to get rid of the competition.
I would have been very unhappy if this took place at my school, and if my DS was there I think uncomfortable questions would have been asked!
I would much rather support a fair trade group such as Cafe Direct. Even bloody Nescafe sells a fairtrade coffee now - again, they can afford to operate at a loss for one brand as they make so much money elsewhere.

I don't see the problem either.

They use fairtrade products. They are a business. They are very well placed to talk to young people about business, and about their fair trade products.

If you disagree with certain aspects of their business (and I'm a little unclear as to what your issue is, other than that they offer competition to other traders) then discuss with your children what your views are and let them come to their own conclusions. Isn't that what education is about?

You have to understand something - to stay in business in a capitalist society you simply have to behave badly in one respect of another.

The premise is this: take this product or this service, get people to create it for as little money as possible, sell it for as much as possible and use coercion to force people to want it.

Put like that, it's hardly surprising that for most businesses, ethics is the county north of London.

However Fairtrade is one step a company can take to try and do something right. If they are doing it right, why mock them. Would you similarly mock Toyato - after all they made the Prius, yet are big business.

I think YABU.

And yes, I'm cynical, but probably quite accurate too.

Violet then 99% (or whatever) of the children will only hear the Starbucks POV, and 1% (ie Seeker's DD) will hear an alternative. I don't think that is what education is all about.
No, it's not the worst thing the school could do, but it's a bit lazy, unimaginative and gives Starbucks far more (in terms of free advertising to young customers children than the school gains in return.
Whomoved you know we don't have to accept the rules of a capitalist society as being the only way to live

You do if you want to live in the UK. Oh yes you do.

I like capitalism, it creates the tension required to make life interesting.

For all it's faults it works better than the alternatives.

And if you didn't believe that, you wouldn't be on Mumsnet, you'd be in your field, knitting yoghurt. So there!

I agree with Iggi.

I don't trust Starbucks either. They are the MacDonalds of the coffee world. Their coffee taastes like dishwater compared with a proper Italian or French coffee.

And did you know, the most expensive ingredient in a cup of Starbucks coffee is.............. the milk!

Whomoved I didn't say I don't have to live with them, but I don't have to (morally) accept them.
I'm assuming poverty, war etc are the icing on the cake of the "tension" of which you speak.

Incidentally, I don't like the coffee in Starbucks, it's not strong enough, not rounded enough and too milky for my taste (even a flat white).

I did have a to die for coffee today though, made by a 15 yr old spotty kid in a sports centre. I was astounded how good it was.

But truly the worst coffee I have ever tasted was in McDonalds.

Gosh seeker maybe this is a sign you should give up this grammar school mularky and join those of us at private schools

Iggi - you have a very depressing view of most parents if you think only 1% of parents bother talking to their children about issues.

Anyway, home life and parenting are by far the bigger influences on a child than the relatively small amount of time they spend in school. If you are worried about the section of children who genuinely do get very little parental input, then frankly, they probably regularly visit starbucks or mcdonalds anyway! So this at the very least is an opportunity for them to find out about fair trade and how it works (even though it probably won't change any family habits about where to eat and drink.)

I think it's very naive and also a little patronising to assume that one business coming in during one week of the school year is going to brainwash children to think a certain way. Credit young people with a bit more common sense.

Nope, I mean I think if there are different perspectives to be given on a topic then they should be given IN the school, not relying on parents thinking to bring it up at home.
Judging by this thread I think very few parents would see anything to criticise in Starbucks, that seems to be the general tone.
If the business didn't think it was going to influence young people, they would not come in.

And where did anyone say different perspectives aren't given?

During Fair Trade fortnight, speakers with a focus on fair trade are invited in. Other speakers at other times will focus on different things - seems logical.

At my school, Business, how large companies operates, and the ethics of big business is precisely one of the issues that's covered during PHSE lessons (which go on all year round). Just because the school doesn't have a speaker standing up two minutes after the Starbucks one has sat down, criticising Starbucks practices, does not mean that different perspectives are not part of the school curriculum.

Credit schools, educationalists and young people with a bit more savvy (even if you don't credit the parents with any!)

P.S The effects of big business on small independents is covered in Humanities too. In fact it no doubt crops up in a number of curriculum areas, throughout the Key stages.

Fair trade products were the focus of the talk; therefore it's entirely approriate to invite in a company which uses them. That doesn't mean total 100% endorsement by anyone of everything about Starbucks. At various times other speakers come in. Neither is anyone endorsing them 100%. As long as different persepctives are shown, what is the problem? And different perspectives on different issues are very much a part of 21st century education.

Why, Mollie? Are private schools untainted by commercialism?

This is no different from when I was a teenager at school approx 30 years ago. We had speakers from local/big businesses on all manner of subjects. The only permanent impact this had on me was to never, ever buy a battery egg/chicken. I think you're worrying unnecessarily...

Also, if big businesses don't go Fair Trade it will fail. I'd say it was a good thing really.

Well, here's the Starbucks sustainability and responsibility report:

www.starbucks.com/responsibility

They have a team of people who gather and crunch the numbers for this, and actions are taken as a result, e.g.

www.actionsustainability.com/news/28/Starbucks-audit-finds-suppliers-CSR-flaws/

Seems reasonable enough to me. I'd be more than happy to see any business which uses fairly traded ingredients talking at either of the DC's schools. FT is the future, man...

OP - I'm with you on this one. I can't remember all the details but Starbucks really are dodgy. Apart from anything else only a small proportion of their coffee is Fairtrade. Why couldn't they get a representative of the Fairtrade foundation to speak?

Starbucks info (not just their own PR guff!) here

Perhaps they did get someone from FF to speak? I'm not saying that I necessarily approve of these coffee places - I only drink Redbush tea so am not a fan of coffee at all - but I think it makes sense for a wide range of companies to talk about their use of fairly traded ingredients. Hopefully they'll be inspiring a generation to demand more FT products, and who will question how companies source their products far more than we do.

Violet you seem very wound up by my comments, not sure why. What is missing is an alternate perspective on Starbucks, I doubt other invited speakers etc will give that. And I'm doubtful of the amount of time available in PSE to cover this, and each student picks their own social subject so I don't think they will all cover it there.
I agree with you that a speaker standing up straight after the Starbucks guy is not a good idea: I don't think Starbucks should have been asked to represent fair trade to school children at all.
I would also like to put to bed the idea that I have slagged off parents somewhere in my comments.

morriszapp whenever you appear on a thread I have no need to ad further comment