or is my mother - read and judge...

[bintofbohemia]

Short history: she left when I was 4 and we didn't see much of her after that.When I left home I had a better relationship with her for a few years until she cut me off in my twenties and we didn't see each other for about 8 years.

Anyway, after I had DS1 we got back in touch and have got on since - DH heard all about her from my dad and SM but never witnessed any of her stranger behaviour until recently.

Anyway, in the last year things have started to get odd. She took a dislike to my half sister at our wedding and made up some story about her barging into her. She recently implied that me having to hold my son down to put eyedrops in when he had conjunctivitis was abuse akin to her parents sitting on her brother and beating the crap out of him when he was 10 to make him wear shorts. When I was recently really upset because she constantly talks about how my kids are really happy at her house in the country outdoors playing with her, rather than living in a city which she thinks is awful, she just says, well, you signed up for it. She comments on how I parent (ie it's rubbish, she keeps siting this family who never say no to their kids and seems to recommend dropping out of society and living as a traveller.) If I say the boys are a handful she says they're not, they're beautiful, how can I not be happy all the time?

The most disturbing thing recently though was the day after she'd gone on about how DS1 is fantastic and wonderful and wouldn't hear a word about how hard he is. SHe then called me the next day to tell me how his behaviour was unusually aggressive, and not normal, and she feared for DS2 in case he did anything awful to him.

This kind of thing screws with my head and I can't be dealing with it. She loves the kids and in theory we get on well but i find myself constantly irked by her criticsms of my parenting, our life, our choices etc. I don't see eye to eye with my father or stepmother either, and sometimes I find myself wondering if it's me - no one else seems to have so many problems with their families, perhaps I just can't get on with people?

Anyway, AIBU to think she's a bit...weird? Or is it me?

She sounds a bit nuts, and changing her "story" frequently like this is used by "gaslighters", isn't it? I can't say whether it is deliberate, of course, but when that kind of thing is deliberate, it is abusive. (There are lots of other posts on MN about it; I'm sorry that is a crappy Wikipedia entry.)

No matter how strong the switches or with what intentions it is done, this sort of inconsistency is very hard to deal with, so just start to analyse things so you can keep your own bearings!

She certainly appears inconsistant in what she says. Personally I would refuse to accept parenting advice or criticism from someone who left her own child.When she starts ask her what would she know, she hasn't been a perent for the majority of your life. I think when a parent leaves a child to be brought up without them, they lose the right to an opinion later on. Sorry you are having a hard time with your family

Winged - thanks for the link. She definitely does, and always has done that. My SM says she thinks my mother has a personality disorder, or is a psychopath, but then they're not exactly best mates, and my dad and SM have their own issues...

Oooh, you see, you are already canny enough to analyse your SM's ideas and behaviour, based on what it would be in her interests to say. If you can extend that filter to your mother, you might feel a lot better quite suddenly. Of course you haven't done this with your mother till now because your relationship with her is old, dating from your uncritical childhood, whereas your SM came a bit later. However, you have this ability to filter, so well done on that, and do try to apply it to your mother and see what happens!

Thank you WingedVictory! You're totally right. We're supposed to be going up there this weekend and have been dithering about whether to, just because I can't be bothered with having to deal with all the subtext/oddness. I think we will go but try to keep detached and in control of the situation. (Sounds relaxing, doesn't it?)

I think your mother may be envious of the life you lead particularly your close and normal loving motherly relationship with your sons.
She may have pent up feelings of guilt over her walking out on you and may be trying to '' parent'' your boys because she wasn't much of a parent to you. Its almost like she sees your children as her second chance at parenting when in fact she needs to step back and let you as their mother take control.
My personal opinion is alot of the things she says stems from her own insecurities and guilt.
You may need to judge the situation and if she is a good grandmother to your children then take alot of the things she says with a pinch of salt and try to think of where it all comes from i.e her guilt e.t.c
On the otherhand if you have any genuine concerns regarding the welfare of your children they it may be wise to try and reason with her or step back and take back some of the control that she has tried to take away from you x

One thing I forgot to add earlier is maybe she doesn't know how to be a mother or a grandmother as not everyone is able to successfully parent.

Why on earth are you letting this women continue to control and belittle you, and by extension, your children?

She sounds more than a little odd, but you don't need to have such a negative and critical influence in your life, especially as she appears to now be undermining your belief in your self.

While I appreciate it must be nice for you to have made amends for her frankly shocking behaviour during your childhood, is it really the best thing for your DCs to witness her eratic behaviour and mood swings and lying? At best, it will be very confusing for them. At worst, it will be damaging.

Hi b of b, I have followed some of your threads in the past and honestly think that you drew the short straw when it comes to family - through no fault of your own.

We all learn how to relate to people in our early years, and it suits some (abusive) people, to have you in a state of self-doubt. Then they can treat you like c*p AND blame it on you. And the inconsistent behaviour is part of that strategy - keeps you confused and vulnerable, but also very grateful for any scraps of love and support they do deign to offer.

Whatever your mum is doing, and she sounds like a very difficult person, the important thing is that you learn to recover your self esteem and instinct for self-preservation, that abusive people have undermined. Read Women who Run With Wolves by Clarissa Pinkola Estes - she writes in stories and covers this subject. This might all sound a bit theoretical but I see that you have written a few 'is it me or is it them' kind of threads. You can reconnect with the sense of when someone is behaving badly towards you and it is important that you do. Ending contact with people who confuse you, make you feel bad or doubtful is a good start. You can always make contact again when you feel up to it.

IMO you shouldn't allow yourself to be ground down by a hypocrite who abandoned you as a child and now has the front to belittle you on parenting issues. I would be keeping my distance.

Thank you for taking the time to reply! I do find it all very confusing, althougth slightly less so after having some counselling last year (mainly to do with my father and stepmother, but it was definitely transferable.)

It's one of the main reasons I want to move, as where we are now I seem to be surrounded by people who are not on my side and back my parents' behaviour, and when surrounded by a majority who seem to support them it can be very eroding and I do find I come on here a lot to try to get some sort of neutral perspective as my own judgement can feel so impaired sometimes. It's like I essentially know that they are wrong but I have to reassure myself that it isn't me all the time.

I also really worry that if all my parents were/are abusive, then perhaps there will be something wrong with me as well. I try to go out of my way to do things very very differently and I would never treat my children like I was treated, but on bad days when I hear myself sounding like one of them it can be a bit unsettling. (I mean sayign similar phrases, but the innocuous ones, not slagging them off like they did with me.)

Thanks again for the feedback - I really need it!

sparechange I am so conscious of anything affecting my children and we (DH and I) have always said we would operate on our terms and back off if it looked like they could be affected. They are 1 & 3 at the moment and they wouldn't pick up on anything at the moment as it's all very subtle. But I am monitoring it closely. And lookng into emigrating.

Bint, re: also really worry that if all my parents were/are abusive, then perhaps there will be something wrong with me as well

For years and years, I had the same self doubt. My mother was abusive, her mother was abusive. What hope did I have when clearly women in my family weren't capable of being decent mothers?

A counseller told me very frankly that the moment I began to worry about repeating their pattern of behaviour was the moment it was never going to happen.
An abusive parent is not one who critiques their own actions and they certainly don't worry about it. They don't look for causes and reasons, just excuses and blame.

So the very act of worrying is enough to suggest you aren't going to copy your parents. Although that doesn't stop the worrying about whether or not to worry!

Sparechange - that is a relief in a way, but yes, I don't think you ever really stop worrying.

In terms of how to handle things this weekend, I'm in two minds. I'm tempted to raise what she said about my son (we haven't seen her since) in front of her husband, who she claimed felt the same way as she did - and saying that whatever their personal feelings about his behaviour (which, to clarify, is just the normal pain in the arse towards his younger brother behaviour you expect from a 3 and a half year old) they must absolutely not communicate this anywhere near him, as I will not have this projected onto him. I figure if we open this up in front of all four of us it exposes her behaviour and I want to see if she will backtrack in front of our respective DHs.

I've just been reading a bit about gaslighting, and NPDs. (I think both my mother and father may have NPD, although that's just my speculation) - do you thik they can attract each other?

And do they actually set out to gas light people on purpose? Do they sit there planning how to freak people out? And, more to the point, WHY?! Why on earth would you bother expending that kind of energy to cause trouble?

Nowt wrong with using MN as a sounding board - invaluable! You need and deserve lots of support.

You know one of the insidious facts of abuse is the lovely side order of shame that always seems to come with it. There is nothing wrong with you and I'm sure you are a good parent - but you can end up feeling quite icky in association with abusive types just due to their poor boundaries and their tendency to blame their traits on you. My dad for example always tries to bring me to shame - and I used to feel awfully ashamed, but I realise that I haven't done anything to warrant feeling that way - and that he is trying to bring me down with him. Sad really, but no doubt your mum's feelings about her own rubbish parenting are hard to bear so she will try to palm them off on you. Dont have it - you are She-ra, you are strong etc!

Just read your last post.

With NPDs, I think there is usually only one but the partner is often in thrall to them, so they can adopt similar behaviours to the NPD (or collude with them). My dad is NPD, and I had terrible trials with my mum too - but since they divorced, mum is much more reasonable, and I have been able to communicate with her and she has changed. My N dad does not accept any criticism and is callous - reason is impossible.

And the gaslighting thing is done on purpose sometimes (like causing divisions amongst siblings is another type of power play). Equally though they can get themselves muddled I think, as they do not have that integral sense of self from which valid opinions arise.

mitford - sounds rubbish. How do you deal with it, have you cut him out or have you just backed away?

FWIW my father doesn't do the shame thing with me - he just makes it clear that I am lower than the shit on his shoe and not even worth listening/talking to because I am so irrelevant. I think he sees me as a chip off the old block, (my mother) and that we are both hysterical, stupid women who need a good slap. (And got one as well, back in the day.) He sounds like yours in that he will not take critism and will never apologise. Even after he beat seven shades of shit out of me when I was 16, and when he tried again at 17. All my fault, of course, for being bolshy.

Is there a good way to deal with gaslighting? Does exposing it in front of others work?

b of b - I don't see my dad any more. What about you? Sounds like he doesn't deserve to be anywhere near you or your family.

I know it is a tremendous cliche about choosing your friends but being stuck with your family but it is a fact. However, you don't have to let them grind you down or make you insecure about your own ability as a parent. I honestly think that too much analysis can trigger off self-doubt and your determination to do things differently means that you almost certainly will.

My own (recently deceased) mother didn't make a very good job out of my teenage years. From down the years, I can understand the pressures she was under and we discussed this very issue when I was an adult. But despite all this understanding I would never have repeated the same behaviour with my own sons at that age. That's not to say I don't somehow hear myself using the same (harmless) expressions as her from time to time but I know I am not actually turning into my mother.

its time you had a talk with your mother remember she has something wrong with her as she left you. she's probably trying to prove she is normal now what ever that means to her. and talk to your husband tell him how you feel and find out what side he is on tell him if he is happy with they way you both parent he must stick up for you. And see her less. if at all. loads of my friends have cut away from the nasty parents.

good luck