to want to tell SIL that her dd needs to ditch the dummy?

[mrsbean78]

First things first, I'm a Speech and Language Therapist. My SIL's dd, my niece, is 23 months old and has a dummy in her mouth pretty much morning, noon and night. She has only recently begun to talk. Most of what she is saying is 'where's X? Gone', saying no or asking for food/milk. So a bit delayed, but she's talking, which is a good thing.. but I'm noticing now that her speech is quite indistinct and she is backing her consonants (saying 'kicker' instead of sister) which can be associated with overuse of a dummy.

The thing is, the thought of saying anything to my SIL makes me absolutely cringe. She is a GP, three years older than me, but I've always found her hard to talk to. She says things about my job like 'oh do you not find it boring minding children all day' (???) and 'why would you be involved in assessing children with autism, that's a medical condition'.. so probably wouldn't take my opinion very seriously..

but...

I really think the dummy has to go for my niece's benefit.

What would you do, and how would you approach it?

I'd keep out of it. It won't be well received. Your SIL is the parent, and she hasn't asked you for a professional opinion.
Plus she's a GP and therefore well able to source help if she feels it's necessary.

How would you feel if she tried to criticise your parenting?

Wow, well you sound like you have problems with your SIL TBH, your OP came across to me "well I'm a SALT so I know best" , "she's just a stuck up GP what does she know"!

As a GP, I am sure she is aware of what she is doing, do you have any evidence for long term affect on speech developement and dummy use??

I'd keep your judgy nose out IMO!

I'd say nothing. None of business I'm afraid but it would drive me bananas.

I'd like to say what mummychicken said.

I definitely, definitely would keep out of it & wouldn't say anything. It doesn't sound like you have a great relationship with your SIL in any case, and there's no way she'd take a comment like that well. In particular, attributing speech delay to something your SIL is doing 'wrong' will definitely not go down well at all.

Btw it doesn't really sound like speech delay at 23 months, surely that's within normal to speak slightly less at that age, I do think dummies are not great but that doesn't mean that ANY speech 'delay' (and as I said it doesn't sound like a delay here) can be directly attributed to them. One more reason why your 'advice' won't go down well.

Surely you know parents take 'advice' of this kind negatively in most cases, particularly when it's about something that's not definitely proven like dummy use... so best for you to keep out of it, it sounds like your niece will speak fine in her own good time, just let the family get on with it. And if you have issues with your SIL (she does sound like a bit of a cow) that's another story.

Having a dummy will not cause speech delay, I'm rather that anyone could say that especially a SLT. It can cause words to be very very 'off target' but at nearly two many words could be anyway. If the child is speaking with a dummy in her mouth then she may not learn to use the front and top of her pallet to pronounce words or open her mouth properly.

I think I would find an easy route and let siblings talk....so if it's your brother, your Dh's sister etc.

might not cause speech delays (don't know, suspect it does if it's in so much and she's constantly allowed to speak with it in) but it could cause lasting damage to teeth & bite. Are thumbs worse than dummies for this?

ds gave up his thumb while he still had milk teeth, yet he has a large overbite and is a bit lispy & detist is convinced it was caused by thumb sucking.

WOuldn't say anything to her though - how are you related? her dh your db? Maybe having a word with him would be more productive? I'd stick with the encouraging her to take it out when with you.

Chill people, was just asking..

Tbh I don't really want to say anything to her anyway, and would certainly not do personally, and would certainly not use my profession outwardly.

She is dh's sister and he (as a layperson) found it really difficult to listen to his little niece talking through her dummy.

I wouldn't want to say something to her for the very reason that I know we don't get on amazingly well. He wants me to because as he sees it, she constantly uses her GP 'knowledge' to give us advice that certainly isn't evidence based e.g. give up breastmilk, start giving our 17 week old
baby rice to help him sleep through. Yes, she does my head in.. but this is not why I would say something, and if I did I would do something like get dh to say something general to his mother (who is quite canny) and ask her to mention it.

For the record, our little boy has a dummy so it's not that I have some major problem with them! The substitution of /s/ with /k/ is a non-developmental error as are many of her other errors, and this is why I am concerned. I don't believe the dummy is necessarily causing this, but it really won't help.

Also, a major factor I ommitted from the OP is that my SIL lives in Ireland where waiting lists for SALT are two years in some places due to a freeze in hiring in the health sector there.

thumbs are worse than dummies cuppa.

and OP i wouldn't say a dam thing, i think you have issues with the SIL more than the fact her DD uses a dummy.

I think YOU need to "chill"... Unless you spend 24 hours a day with her (doubtful if you don't like each other) your "has a dummy in her mouth pretty much morning, noon and night" has no weight!

As a GP I am sure she will be aware if it is a developmental delay!

Let the child have time to speak at all before you throw her on the SALT waiting lists!

just spent four days with 2.8 yr old neice constant dummy very indistinct speech, bite already affected as the there is a large curved gap between the edges of her top and bottom teeth. speaking through a dummy drives me nuts and I did feel mean telling her to take it out all the time but haven't said anything to SIL. She must be able to see it herself and not be bothered.

Coudln't your brother make a stand with his wife? say that HE wants the dummy to go for whatever reason?

AIBU is so amusing! Everyone gets outraged when someone posts a question..

As I said before, I know I have issues with my SIL and so I don't want to say anything, never have wanted to say anything.

I have wondered, from time to time, what I would do if a friend or relative had a child showing signs of autism or specific language impairment, but am really not lumping this little girl's backing into that category.

However, before I leave this, I really do have to tackle the statements about my professional judgement of her speech here. Backing is a pain in the wotsit to get rid of if it persists. Yes, posieparker, it is an articulation error vs a speech delay.. but at this early stage of development, articulation errors often impact upon phonological development. To be perfectly specific, if the backing continues and does impact upon her phonological development further down the line, then it would follow our trust's moderate speech disorder pathway, requiring direct SLT intervention. Backing of fricatives /s/ to /k/ would generally be considered to be a sign of speech disorder vs delay, but she is very young, and I have seen children with red flags for severe speech disorder resolve spontaneously.

All of which I have said to my dh. If I saw my niece in clinic, I would ask the parents to get rid of the dummy, refer her for a hearing check, give some general advice to support speech development based on her errors and review her in six months. I'd see her as pretty low risk. If I had any concern, it would be what happens if in six months, she still has the dummy (her sister did at three) and is persistently backing and can't access SALT for a further two years due to the waiting lists. Bit of a pain.

I'd stay out of it, it's one issue in what sounds like a very complex and unhappy relationship between you two.

"Also, a major factor I ommitted from the OP is that my SIL lives in Ireland where waiting lists for SALT are two years in some places due to a freeze in hiring in the health sector there."

Then you could wait and offer to do some private consulting at an exorbitant fee. With 4* hotel thrown in.

Yeah, I will leave it... needed to consider it more objectively as it was bothering me that dh was so adamant we say something because "she would say it to us". Also b/c since I have had my pfb, I have been questioning my approach to 'low risk' cases as I understand better now that when it's your kid, something v minor to a professional can provoke a lot of parental anxiety.

YABU
Don't do it it will make family relations very difficult.
From your OP it seems that she is rather rude but it comes across to me like you want to say something to get one up on her. She's insulted your profession so you want to prove to her a point, that doesn't seem like genuine concern for your DN.

It is difficult to be understood through a dummy - if you talk with it in. Just say "I can't hear you sweetheart, can you take your dummy out please?" I can't see anyone complaining about that.

My ds1 is having speech therapy and its HARD work for him to re-learn how to say certain sounds. I didnt spot it early on and would have been grateful if someone else had helped me realise that he needed to see a SALT.
I'm not sure about how your SIL would react about the dummy thing though.
Could you say something a little less specific about it for your DN's benefit so at least you've tried?
Perhaps say to your SIL that as a SALT you have noticed that DN is 'backing' which is an unusual thing and that you are happy to offer prefessional advice on resolving thins or also happy to leave it and let your SIL decide what to do (if anything) and then ONLY if she says 'thanks very much for pointing it out, what would your advice be?' do you mention the dummy...

I hate it when people do this on MN but in this case I really would like to see some factual support for your assertion that dummies do not cause speech delay, posieparker.

Anecdotally, in support of the general point mrsbean makes about not delaying SALT for too long, my friend's little boy is in Reception and has just begun seeing a SALT. I have had concerns about his speech for a couple of years, but did not interfere, just as you are all advising, and my friend is now wishing that she had started the process earlier since her little boy is finding it more difficult to settle into school and is getting bullied about his speech which is very indistinct.

Wow youve taken a bit of a kicking OP and have no idea why.

Ive been in a similar situation but the wee boy was 3. I didnt say anything but did say 'I cant understand can you take your dummy out?' etc. This wee boy now talks and talks and talks at 4 but some of his words still are a bit hard to understand.

The way my SALT explained it to me is that for certain sounds you move the front part of your tongue (ie 's') and others you move the back part of your tongue (ie 'k') and if a child has a dummy in the mouth when learning these sounds then the dummy can cause the tongue to be further back/the wrong part of the tongue to move and then the habit sticks and is very hard to unlearn.
'Luckily' my DS has a 'typical' speech delay in that he is learning how to say the sounds in a 'typical' way but is just quite delayed in doing so. His SALT has told us that if he had a 'atypical' speech delay (which can be caused by a dummy!) then it would be much harder to fix.
If my child was at a critical point where it could go wither way and one of those ways involved lots of SALT and a struggle to re-learn how to speak properly, then I'd like to be told so at least I had the option to try and resolve it earlier on.

YANBU to want to say something and if you can do it in a helpful way then IMO you should. The parents sound like they are being lazy and using the dummy for an easy life.

My nephew constantly has a dummy in as well. I can't bear it. DS has one for sleeping so it's not dummy prejudice but having one wedged in their mouths every waking minute is just crap.