Italian MIL

[samoa]

I have to get this off my chest, as I cannot speak to my husband about it because it usually ends up in a fight . I am Nigerian/Australian & DH is Italian & we are living in Rome for the moment only 10 minutes walk from his mother. My MIL was not that bad, she wasn't coming round to the house all the time or being invasive. But now that has changed since our DD is born. My family we all live in different countries and so I am not so used to being around family all the time. Even when in my family, although we love each other very much, we also like our space.

This started basically straight away when I came back from hospital. Must mention that my mother came from Canada for 6 weeks to help me because I had a c-section. Basically my MIL has been coming around everyday and just being there. At the beginning because I was obviously BF a lot MIL would just sit there and stare and ask me every 5 minutes whether she was still eating. When DD would stop eating my MIL would stand up straight away and take DD away from me. This got me fairly upset because i felt that I had only the right to hold my DD when I was BF and because my mother, who lives in Canada and this is first grandchild (MIL already has 5), was not being given the chance to hold her. On my 3rd day of being home the baby blues hit me and I just wanted to spend tiime with the baby and have space. so i went to the bedroom to lay down with DD. Within the space of an hour my MIL came in 3 times to ask if she could have the baby. I told her quite clearly that i wanted to spend time with my DD. When the hour came to BF my MIL just sat there watching me a& afterwards asking if she could hold her again, I said no. my mother was in the kitchen cooking for my DH and me, trying to give me space as she could see that I was about to crack up. In fact it did get too much for me and I started crying desperately, I was hormonal and this was my first child so I just wanted to spend time getting to know her but instead I had my MIL there all the blood time just staring. Whilst I was crying in front of her she did nothing, just stared. My mother came in to help me and once I had calmed down a bit she said to my MIL that she was going for a walk because she could see that my DH and I needed space (hint hint). My MIL did not get the hint and just sat there for another 2hrs whilst I cried.

I have been left extremely angry and bitter about this for 2 reasons:

1. I needed space with my baby and my MIL made me feel that I had no right holding my baby unless i was BF. My mother was helping us in the house and MIL was doing bugger all but just sitting in front of me whilst I was BF and waiting to hold the baby!
2. Siince my parents live in Canada, this is their first grandchild and we only see each other twice a year, I thought that it was only right that they should also get a little space to spend with her.

My DD is now 8 weeks old & MIL still coming nearly every bloody day is going to make me explode! If I talk to my DH he says that his mother is getting old now and his father died more than 10 years ago. There is nothing I can say to that. But I need my space and time with my baby! I don't know what to do and need help because I am feeling extremely claustropobic and I want to enjoy my time with DD.

Let me just add that I come from an extremely multicultural family. My father and his brothers are mixed race (Nigerian Welsh) and have all married women from different backgrounds: Australian, Somali, and Brazilian. But this is the first time I am being faced with a major cultural clash.

Thanks!

Really sorry for your dilemma. You are totally within your rights to be upset about this. My family spans two cultures but noone lives in the same country as us so I only get extended family in short bursts. I think you really must speak to your DH, theres no way he'll want you to suffer like this. Granma needs to adjust her expectations and he needs to persuade her to do that in a supportive way. She sounds a bit unhappy to me, but she shouldn't be making you unhappy in the process. I really can't imagine what she thinks she's up to?!

Difficult to answer without generalising or offending??..

My ex MIL was Italian, she was lovely, but very very metrical and did not understand privacy at all?however, she was very frank and hard to offend so I often had to tell her (no good hinting) how I was feeling and she would be quite happy with that.

All the sisters were similar, when there was a new baby though they did just descend and assume that the mother wanted them there, could you ask her to help and do cooking or other jobs so she is busy and you get some space for a while.

Not an instant fix but I really wish that I had read Annie Hawes books, ?extra virgin? and ?ripe for the picking? sooner?they gave a really good insight into how some Italian mothers work (well it rang true for the ones that I knew anyway).

I am italian and have to say my mum was like this in the early days and it is bloody hard. She was my childcare so we have had to make it work. In Italy the gc are like second children- v different culture you have to be blunt and explain you need time to bond with your baby.

Never mind the cultural mix. This is your first baby and your home and you have the right to enjoy both as you wish. You've been patient and your MIL has had plenty of time to meet her gc but that's enough.

I think you need to get her out of her routine of coming around every day. Have you tried explaining that you won't be available tomorrow. Can you go shopping or out to a friend's house just before she comes round in the morning? Or just lock the door and ignore her. Then maybe invite her over for lunch on a specific date that suits you.

You have my sympathy. My MIL once took my ds for a walk for two hours without telling me so I thought he'd been kidnapped. We ended up moving away and I no longer really speak to her.

samoa, am really sorry to hear about this, it sounds horrendous. I have not heard good things about Italian MILs, I'm afraid (wrt their attitudes towards their DILs - possessive over sons and all that) but she does sound spectacularly awful. So no, YANBU.

Your DH needs to support you. He needs to not chicken out of telling his mother where to draw the line. Can you ask him to discuss visiting arrangements with her, to work out a plan where she visits no more than x times a week, at specific times, and then she knows that she can have one-to-one baby time on those occasions and you can catch up on sleep, perhaps?

Also don't forget that people tend to give foreigners more leeway in terms of accepting 'odd' behaviours from them, so you can get away with being more demanding than you might if you were a native Italian. Milk it. Milk it milk it milk it.

I have to say that if I were in your position I would find it hard to entrust my baby to her, regardless of whether she had shown that she was not trustworthy. By not showing you respect she is erasing that trust.

Is it completely out of the question to start gradually, but to actually say something yourself? Maybe after lunch just look at her and say something like "I'm going to have a nap for a couple of hours, so would you mind going home now?". If she says she'll stay, just be prepared to stick to your guns and say "No, really, I do appreciate your help, but I'd like some quiet time just me and the baby". If you can make that work, then maybe you can use the practise to get prepared to speak up with her a bit more in the future.
Your DH is an idiot not dealing with this for you of course, but also I think that if you've got someone spending this much time with you, you too need to be able to deal with them.

If I were you I would go and visit your parents in Canada and have some space, they clearly seem able to give you your own space while being helpful.

HUGE sympathy will be back later but come over to Little Italy and join us many of us are in the same situation......

Hi - same situation - I'm mixed from a multicultural family and my dh and mil are italian - and it's been hell - and I don't livce in Italy - so you DO need to mind the cultural mix.

Even my mum in this country has had to deal with mil here - and it's not nice.

Your DH has to deal - not you, not your mum.

But what I would say that although this is your mum's first ds - it's your mil's first ds with this particular dh.

In fact - if you want to hear the complete hell I've been through you can apparently CAT me (dunno what that is actually).

I've also had huge religious issue which have caught me unawares given i'm from a multireligious familiy with no issues and I'm quite old.

Hi, I am italian but married to a non italian and i have seen this happen time and again wtih all my non italian friends married to italians. Does your dh by any chance only have brothers? it tends to get worse in thsoe circumstances.

From experience of talking and counselling lots of friends, you HAVE to talk to your dh and get him to understand and speak to his mother. you simply cannot confront your MIL, it is not your role, your DH has to set the boundaries. It will lead to stress between the two of you, but he has to take your side- simple as that. It would be much worse if you fight with MIL, because then he will end up taking her side...

there are many reasons to explain her behaviour, in italy babies are seen as property of the larger family, many italian women are only too happy to let their mothers/mils help to a very very high degree (because of free childcare), many italians still don't have a clue about breastfeeding etc.

Still. this is your baby. Your dh has chosen to marry you. So, you decide, and he has to support you.

good luck

I have nothing to add, exept that your baby must be gorgeous with all those wonderful genetics

If your dh wont say anything you will have to say something, not in a rude way but firm & clear like what the previous poster said above about tell her you are going to sleep now can she please go. It sounds like a really frustrating situation you have my full sympathy! Going to visit your own parents in canada also sounds a good idea, bt only a temporary solution, and you do need to get this mil thing sorted out for good, just for her to understand boundaries and need for privacy, otherwise she will just continue on and on like this and it really would drive you crazy. Try talking again to DH if possible.
but YANBU @ all in the way you are feeling. Mil is being U with her overbearing behaviour

Poor you!Am also in Rome with Italian DP and our pain in the proverbial is FIL (as the girls on Little Italy will tell after having to listen to my many moans and complaints!)
Agree with advice to get DH to see from your point of view and speak to his Mother if that is at all possible. Do you have much of a support network with friends in Rome? Have you looked into the English speaking playgroups /mother and toddler groups there? There is one I used to go to when DS was little which was a life saver as met a lot of others of mixed marriages etc who understood the issues that can arise (MIL was always a hot topic!). Can give you details if you are interested?
Failing that shall we introduce my FIL to your MIL and hope for the best

where is this little italy thing?

Have to say my dh is a mamone - it's bad - I've tried him and I've tried her and it's made them even more of a couple!

PS Samoa, if you feel like it you can come hang out on little italy where issues like these, as well as the use of bidets, nutella for breakfast, and whether you can catch the flu from sweating, are discussed daily

x-posts giveitago- you've got the link now

This is such a difficult situation, also you are recovering from childbirth, learning to look after baby, no sleep etc. First time I went to Italy with my half Italian baby I remember crying in the loo as I felt they had taken him from me! But its easy to be tolerant when its a few weeks a year....

Remember in time this MIL attitude will HELP, as you will be able to go shopping/running/out/whatever as you have a babysitter! but its early days and you mayne cant imagine this!

I think you need to firmly and gently stand your ground, as others said you are a foreigner with funny ways!

"I am going to sleep now with baby, see you later...
"I need some rest, so bye bye now
etc etc

be gentle, and try to avoid confrontation and get DH to back you up

Its hard as your emotions are all over the place. Gently set some boundaries and it should get easier

mystic - you are fab thank you.

Don't have much advice but lots sympathy...
Sounds like my MIL at my DD's birth. (My first). I used to go in my bedroom to BF and she would keep asking through the door - 'are you done now?' and I would call back 'no'. Sometimes she had finished but I didn't want to give her to mil.
Heard from Sil a few months back that 'she didn't know what I used to do in my bedroom all day' Didn't think of 'hiding' did she???
I think she thought she was helping and was going to give me a rest but it was every bloody time and I wanted to cuddle dd too.
Not Italian though, think further east. (I'm from there too btw)

Samoa, first of all congratulations on the birth of your baby

I really don't know what to suggest, and I'm sorry you are having such a dilemma.

I'm Italian, married to an Italian and I must say that I adore my MIL, who's always been extremely supportive (and is in fact a fantastic grandmother) but has never invaded our privacy as a couple/family.

You really need your dh to speak to his mother, trying to make her understand.
It can be difficult for an Italian of an older generation to understand this issue.

I'd be totally honest, I must be as Italian as you can possibly get, as when I had my first child I loved having people around and baby was passed from a relative to a friend etc etc all day. We then went back to the UK and I nearly sank into depression for the loneliness.

Sriously though, your dh really needs to help you dealing with your extremely intrusive (even to italian standards) mil.

My Danish MIL was very much like this when I had ds1 (13 yrs ago now). She used to follow me into my bedroom when I was bf ds1! In the end I had to tell her that I felt crowded and needed some space. I also told my dh that if he didn't deal with it then I would and I could not guarrantee to be tactful. To be fair to my dh, he didn't take her side over mine but I did end up doing all the talking. I think it has had an effect on my relationship with my MIL as I wasn't particularly tactful (was hormonal first time mother) but it also had the desired result. She now phones and asks to come over.

You must stress to your dh that this is very, very important. If my dh hadn't supported me I would have been considering my options tbh.

Have nyou considered living somewhere apart from Italy?

Hi Samoa, I am also in Rome, though I don't have Italian in-laws which is perhaps just as well!

Italians have a very different idea of privacy and personal space, in fact there is no word for privacy in the Italian language, they had to borrow it from English. Grandparents are also very involved in childcare here, so her expectations of her role will have been different from yours.

That said your MIL sounds like she has really overstepped the mark, and you have been extremely tolerant up til now, I have to say I would probably have screamed at her like a banshee to get out of my house! You really have to get your DH on board, your Mil's age etc is irrelevant surely.

My immediate advice for the moment though would be to get busy, try and get out as much as possible (particularly when MIL is likely to show up), show her you have your own agenda with the baby, in a non confrontational way.

Best of luck and do pop over to little italy

Thanks everybody for the support! I really needed it. I had tried to talk about it the other day at the spazio mamma (meeting of mums) but it was just laughed about, which made me feel quit lonely.

My husband only has sisters, so this is my MIL first gc from her son. I have noticed that a lot of grandparents look after their gc. When I go to the park there are a hell of a lot of grandparents pushing prams!

I will think about all ur suggestions and try to calm down before I talking to either my dh or mil. I just read giveitago's post and I am really sorry to hear that you are going through an extremely tough time with ur mil.

I am living in Rome but do not have so many close friends, or ones with babies anyway, so I have been spending quite a bit on my own.

Thanks once again and I will update everyone as soon as I get my butt into action!