for getting annoyed with the MN obsession with research data to support EVERYTHING

[AngryWasp]

okay, so I live with an academic. I come onto MN to get REPITE from having to reference every opinion.

Sometimes I just like to say what I know without going onto a blardy academic database to retrieve supporting articles. I am happy for them to be considered 'opinions' until such time as someone wants to search for them, it might even be me on occassion but fgs MN is my switch-off.

My ds is 3. Live with it. I should not have to scan in a copy of his birth certificate.

If someone is absolutely insistant on something despite opposing opinions then sure, ask politely if they can point to some research, but don't go searching through threads with the sole aim of finding something somewhere that someone has said without linking to research.

I find it bullying behaviour quite frankly!

AIBU or are there some sympathetic posters out there?

Well YABU because I agree with Stewie - this appears to be a thread directly inspired by a disagreement you had with another poster on another thread. And no I haven't been trawling, I was also on it at the time, and you were having some kind of barney which spilt over into views about research, with some rather dismissive points made vis a vis people's prefessions. I mean, okay, okay we all have a barney at times, and birth and bf threads do provoke strong views. But actually I think starting another thread to complain about someone on a thread is a form of bullying. As to the 'research' then yes, it can get extremely boring, particularly when whole chunks of obscure research articles are quoted (do these people have a life?), but I rather think that we all have a tendency to welcome any research backing our own opinions and to reject any that doesn't. Just as we maybe all accept personal histories that mirror our own and reject ones 'merely anecdotal, give me facts!' that don't. Moreover some people just seem to hate anyone who ventures to declare an opposing view on any subject they feel strongly about. Sometimes one almost detects suggestions that dissent on particular subjects should be somehow discouraged on MN, for the 'common good' as it were. That I find almost sinister. If posters have offensive views then they should be reported. If they have ridiculously off the wall views then they are surely easy to detect. But shutting down debate, however tediously you think it is presented, with lists, tables or whatever, is not what this forum is about surely?

sorry 'professions' (do some research on spelling bellissima).

I just wish my bfing stopped my DD1 getting ear infections . but yeah, I accept that's just personal history.

As Buch just mentioned and quoted Foxy, it doesn't matter what it 'appears' to you. I am telling you that this is a thread about lots of threads and you can't invalidate what I am saying because it is MY opinion and MY feelings. Only I can know what I mean, and I have shared it honestly.

I don't have any issues with trawlers. I do have issues with people who bring an argument on one thread to another on a different topic.

I wouldn't attempt to invalidate what you are saying - it is as valid as anyone else's point of view, including my own. That is the whole point of a thread, surely. We are all allowed to say what we think (politely!). I've tried to indicate that I'm sure I'm just as guilty as the next MNer of having mixed feelings towards 'research'.

I agree with Buch!

Saying that everyone's point of view is equally valid is simply not true though.

Yes, everyone has a right to post here (unless banned etc.) and therefore to say what they think, but it doesn't mean that all of those postings are true, factual and logical. Therefore they're not all equally valid.

There's nothing wrong with sharing anecdotes (and case studies are evidence) but they're not as valid as studies carried out under controlled conditions and checked by independent persons with years of experience, knowledge and qualifications in a particular field.

Anecdotes do tend to carry considerable emotional sway and as humans we tend to remember personal stories better than facts which makes them more authentic, memorable and believable to us. Anecdotal evidence is weak though when you try and expand that out to the wider community.

I disagree with your first sentence Carmen. If they are points of view, they are subjective, therefore you can't say they aren't valid. You can disagree with them, but you can't disprove them. Because they're opinions, not facts!

I agree with your second one (although you find me an article saying 2+2=4 and I'll have a quick google and find you one that says it isn't)

The problem arises, like on the epidural thread and myriad others, where people are belittled and told their points of view aren't valid.

I hang out on the bilingual threads where there are often very interesting research articles linked to. I would never dream of disputing such data. Because they are facts which have been proven by research. (although it's worth remembering there's an exception to every rule ) I would (and have) argued the toss with people who claim it is "confusing" for children to be brought up speaking 2 languages, by using my own child's experiences. Just because it's confusing for them, doesn't mean it is for me. Doesn't give me (or them) the right to tell me/them their opinions/experiences didn't happen though!

OP - YANBU. Quite a lot of posters don't seem to have eyes, ears or their own functioning brain to analyse the world around them!

OP I think you are being a bit mad.

I live with an academic and one of the things I like about him is that he's good at seeing the difference between his own personal prejudices and the facts. That's not to say that he doesn't have opinions, but he realises that holding an entrenched opinion does not make you automatically right.

If all we ever did was throw opinions back and forth at each other, how would that advance any argument?

Bullying behaviour is wrong because it's bullying - not because it involves asking for sources.

"Sure, there is nothing wrong with asking for research evidence. Nothing wrong at all.

However, it needs to be done in a way that adds things to a thread, not in a way designed to beat a poster down iyswim."

I agree completely Angry Wasp with the above post of yours.

I do agree though that a little research is a dangerous thing.

Best practice in science is to search all the available research on a topic, pro and anti, and then summarise the whole position, not to just quote those papers that agree with your pre-existing opinion.

A stupid prejudice backed up by selectively quoted research is still a stupid prejudice.

I agree with you about stupid prejudices backed up by selectively quoted research, theyoungvisitor.

Angrywasp, I like looking at the evidence for the important stuff, but I empathise with you point of view, as there are times when it is good just to share experiences and there needs to be some balance

have skimmed this a bit but I think YANBU.

Agree with general view that someone posting an opinion should not be badgered to produce evidence to back it up.

And if someone does make a bizarre "factual" statement, what's wrong with saying "where did you hear that?" or "that's interesting and different to what i have understood, can you tell me where you found that out?".

Rather than immediatey yelling "Where is the peer reviewed double binded meticulous cohort randomised study? Eh? EH?" like bunch of people who have just read "Bad Science" and are getting carried away. Which is in fact exactly what is happening.

(NB That is my OPINION I have not carried out a randomised trial of MNers to test my hypothesis )

Not noticed but am new and maybe don't read that depth of thread - but it would tick me off too!

I think I know what you mean!!!!! and refer to!!!!

Unfortunateky there are some hardcore opinions here, especially around

birth! all various forms of it
ELCS!
b feeding
FF

and they love to get on it, and use stats to back it up

Its annoying, I agree