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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To question this...?

318 replies

foureleven · 08/04/2010 15:43

I saw this on another thread and kind of hope the mum in question doesnt see this because I dont want to cause offense... just genuinely interested in peoples views..

(..treads carefully...)

I spotted this person say that she is a SAHM and her husband brings home £1000 a month. Plus they get child tax credits. Now I assume this is not 'working tax credits' as thats for childcare right? And they wont need it if she doesnt work.

It may be that its not a lot of money anyway and not worth getting one's knickers in a twist for but AIBU to wonder why a SAHM can claim benefits (other than initial maternity benefits of course)?

If you are a SAHM because your partner earns enough to cover everything thats one thing (and a debate for another thread, this is not ANOTHER SAHM Vs WOHM debate!)but why can women receive top up money to be able to stay at home with the children they cant really afford to?

Shouldnt we be responsible for bringing enough money in to the home for our children?

Genuinely ponders....

OP posts:
Original poster
foureleven · 08/04/2010 18:13

Umm... I do enjoy it. Mostly. I get a salary but i get commission too so the more work I put in the more we get back - it's more necessity than that enjoyment.

Saving for a holiday, dance classes for the girls, the older ones uni fees, a house blah blah blah those thoughts keep me going until about 48 hours then I crash!

OP posts:
violethill · 08/04/2010 18:13

Two observations on returning to this thread:

ASLD - your views are offensive.
And it's utter rubbish to suggest that mothers can't bf their children for 2 years or more if they go back to work. I returned to work part time after each Mat Leave, the first time when my baby was 3 months old, and all my children were bf for up to 2 years.
I totally lost respect for your views once you started to claim that 'it's best for the mother to be at home'

foureleven - in fairness, I think although it maybe wasn't the wisest OP, you have stood your ground and argued your corner without rising to any provocation.
The way I look at it is this: yes, it can be very frustrating to see a big chunk of your hard earned wages disappearing to the taxman. And I think it's horrendously difficult when you have more than one child in pre-school care, you have to run two cars for work, and with two of you working your butts off, you have precious little to show for it. BUT you have to remember all the other benefits of working. And I don't mean just keeping your skills up to date, and being stimulated intellectually. I'm talking about the choices it brings you. The capacity to extend your mortgage if you need to. Take out a loan. The pension you'll reap the benefit of for the last 20 or 30 years of your life. The long term security. Tax credits don't provide any of that. They are designed to top up incomes, and that do just that but no more.

I speak as someone who worked for several years and paid just about my entire salary on childcare. Even now, on two good incomes, our teenage kids tend to drain us of money, and they don't qualify for EMA or anything like that because DH and I earn too much, plus we both have long commutes so spend a fortune on getting to work...... BUT I would rather be in the careers we are with all the long term security that means for us than to be relying on tax credits.

So in short, I think you need to stop feeling bitter. By all means rant about the crapness of many aspects of the benefits system, and definitely against anyone who scrounges, but being in receipt of tax credits is just a normal situation for a lot of people, and they aren't doing anything wrong.

titch7069 · 08/04/2010 18:16

both dh and i work in excess of 16hrs a day and homeschool as well, it is so nice to decide what to spend on rather than just have it disappear

lou031205 · 08/04/2010 18:18

foureleven, I think that there is a cross over between different things here. I am not sure about the issue of 'morality' here. What I mean, is that it sits uncomfortably with me that one person whose partner works full-time and earns enough to support the family is deemed morally 'correct' for choosing to stay at home and raise his/her family, whilst another, whose partner works full-time but does not earn enough to support the family is deemed morally 'incorrect' for choosing to stay at home and raise his/her family. The circumstances in both situations are a matter of chance. People don't (shouldn't, IMO) choose their long term partner and co-parent of their children based on their earning potential.

DH works 34 hours per week. I am a SAHM of 3 children under 5 years old. The eldest is disabled. DH brings home just under £230 per week (post-tax). We get just under £250 per week in Tax credits (both WTC & CTC). We also have Housing Benefit.

I can't go to work. DD1 needs 1:1 at preschool, and is going to special school in September. She would need additional care at a nursery/CM, so would need to pay more.

That aside, I could go to work. I am a Registered Nurse. Even on the wages of a RN, around £11 per hour Pre-tax, so around £7.70 post-tax, I would be so much worse off.

I would get around £423 post-tax weekly. But we would lose £100 Housing Benefit, and lose £210 CTC, leaving £123. But nursery fees would be over £420. Then we would need a second car - an extra £40 per week easily, plus fuel, perhaps £30 per week. So, even with those figures alone, we as a family would lose £370 per week in income. So we would be £1600 per month worse off if I was to work. (I am unable to work night-shifts for health reasons, incidentally).

Original poster
foureleven · 08/04/2010 18:18

thanks violethill. Those would also be my observations.

OP posts:
runnybottom · 08/04/2010 18:18

Why is it difficult to see your wages going to the taxman? Do you not stop and think about how much you get for your taxes? Because you get a lot.

violethill · 08/04/2010 18:19

That's one of the big questions though isnt it?

I feel very uneasy about some of the things taxes go on.

Original poster
foureleven · 08/04/2010 18:19

titch7069 - Im not being deliberately obtuse but I dont understand?

OP posts:
xkaylax · 08/04/2010 18:21

Im a sahm and we get ctc and a little wtc

i really dont see what the problem is here i would much rather bring up my child than strangers i am not lucky enough to have a family to watch him for me while i work or to pick him up from nursery .
It would be great if i could work as we would have more money, at least my partner is working people we know of dont work have child after child and drive a car go on nights out etc and we cant afford that.

we are paying for our child and raising him at the same time if anything this is the best for him and thats whats important .

xkaylax · 08/04/2010 18:21

Im a sahm and we get ctc and a little wtc

i really dont see what the problem is here i would much rather bring up my child than strangers i am not lucky enough to have a family to watch him for me while i work or to pick him up from nursery .
It would be great if i could work as we would have more money, at least my partner is working people we know of dont work have child after child and drive a car go on nights out etc and we cant afford that.

we are paying for our child and raising him at the same time if anything this is the best for him and thats whats important .

Original poster
foureleven · 08/04/2010 18:22

Hmm not really runnybottom... schooling? Umm... sctratches head... £80 a month family allowance... Umm...

OP posts:
titch7069 · 08/04/2010 18:25

mm yeah so much from the taxes, the nhs my bowel cancer - undiagnoised, my daughters deafness - undiagnoised, both until i paid to go private for tests!!err child benefit, nope nowt else

titch7069 · 08/04/2010 18:26

don't understand what OP?

MrsC2010 · 08/04/2010 18:28

I'll be staying at home because it is my personal opinion that it is the best way for young children. That is not a judgement on others, likewise I don't feel judged when others choose to go to work and think it is the best thing for their families, we all make our own decisions. I was brought up by a SAHM as was my husband, which is probably where our mindset comes from.

I will claim whatever tax credits we are entitled to as they are that and not benefits that I would be 'conning' out of some overworked tax payer. It is also worth noting that I, like many other SAHMs, have also been that overworked tax payer so will take what I'm entitled to.

tethersend · 08/04/2010 18:28

Free healthcare? Lack of Anarchy? No rubbish in the street?

No, not much at all...

Original poster
foureleven · 08/04/2010 18:29

'both dh and i work in excess of 16hrs a day and homeschool as well, it is so nice to decide what to spend on rather than just have it disappear'

You work 16 hours a day AND home school? and I dont know what you mean at the end either.

Not being rude, just thought id reitterate that as its so hard to tell intended rudeness on here.. no body language, tone of voice etc etc

OP posts:
jellybeans · 08/04/2010 18:29

Only read OP.

I read a Gov paper on this. The thing with tax credits is that they help lone parents get back into work but they also have the effect of helping some people to SAH that otherwise may have worked. In the paper, I can't remember the figures but it wasn't that high really (30,000 ish but that is a guess), it was concluded that it was worth it on balance as it was more important to get lone parents into work.

To answer OP, yes I think it is great that people who are on tax credits enabling them to SAH have that choice. We don't get much as DH get's reasonable wages but it helps. Some people get hundreds a week. Doesn't bother me as I think SAHP is an important role and am a SAHP myself.

Original poster
foureleven · 08/04/2010 18:31

I think (may be wrong) rubbish clearing is paid for by Council tax isnt it? By all means correct me if I am wrong.

I have private healthcare because for reasons I wont go in to I wouldnt trust the NHS to correctly diagnose a zit.

Lack of Anarchy... maybe... but not sure a lot of tax money goes on activly preventing that.

OP posts:
titch7069 · 08/04/2010 18:32

during the course of a 16 hour working day we home school and run a business,no longer does our money go on commuting, council tax, public education and so on - this is because we are no longer (thankfully) in the UK, no intention to be rude and no idea why you thought i was??

violethill · 08/04/2010 18:32

Ah I see we've now reached the point where some posters are talking about parents who work 'having their children brought up by strangers'.

Sigh.

Parents who work pay for their children to be looked after while they are working by people who look after the children brilliantly, build lovely relationships with their children, and often become close to the whole family.

Oh and the parents actually raise the child. Because they are the primary carers and the greatest influence on the child.

It's a pity some ignorant people seem to need to have that pointed out every time.

Veritythebrave · 08/04/2010 18:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

xkaylax · 08/04/2010 18:34

iI completely agree with you mrsc2010

me and my partner both agreed on me being a sahm before we had ds its just a personal choice

xkaylax · 08/04/2010 18:34

iI completely agree with you mrsc2010

me and my partner both agreed on me being a sahm before we had ds its just a personal choice

Original poster
foureleven · 08/04/2010 18:35

Heehee violethill,

I may start a post on here later about what time of toilet paper I use and see if it digresses in to a SAHM Vs WOHM debate!

OP posts:
Original poster
foureleven · 08/04/2010 18:38

I didnt think you were being rude Titch, just wanted to make sure you knew I wasnt being. I am aware on previous threads when I have said 'I dont understand' a post people have come back at me with anger because they read it as me being rude. Thats all.

Ok, your way of life is so waaaaaaay different to mine that I doubt we'd agree on how to make a cup of tea so lets just at each other shall we xx

OP posts: