Are they nosey or am I oversensitive? Playgroup woes.

[merryberry]

A few hours ago I left a Sure Start play group in tears. I?ve been on/off weepy for 24 hours, after some difficult news yesterday about problems with my rheumatoid arthritis.

Usually I cope with this kind of thing well, it?s a chronic disease, I?ve plenty of practice and a bit of quiet upset is part of normal adjustment. But I?m now flaming, hopping, spitting annoyed with playgroup staff who I feel pushed me over an edge I was carefully avoiding. How much is them, how much me in people?s opinions?

So, sad news at hospital yesterday, three hours sleep only, lots of rheumatoid activity, having some trouble moving but knew I needed to get out with ds2 or I?d be more depressed. We went to the weekly Sure Start group at the end of my road. I?ve not been before, newish location.

Was pleased to catch up with a couple of local mums friends who pitched up. I literally can?t get out as much as we?d like, so this was a bonus. Also, the wonderful large space, new kit, good toys. Pretty formally laid out, rules about how to have snack time, parent?s and children badged up, told it was a language session, focussing on talking to our children. Three staff in for the maximum allowed 20 children in the group. I trailed around after ds2 with an adult sized chair I found in the corner of the room, the only one there. I can?t do getting onto and off of the floor, beanbags or children?s chairs. While hauling a small bottle of diet coke from pocket at intervals in vain hope of caffeine jolt to push through the day.

Having just pulled up to a busy table and joined in, playworker A comes over and says:
?I notice you?re moving the large chair around, I know some people can?t manage the children?s chairs. Can you? We don't allow big chairs, you have to be at the children's level?

I managed a ?No, I have quite a serious problem? to which he said ?Oh dear, what?s the matter?? and I said I can?t go into it. He said that it was OK then, but actually sucked his teeth and exhaled heavily at me and without drawing breath told me to put my drink away ? and this bit came out sounding like he was regurgitating the rule book at me and put my 42 year, sensible woman back up ? that the rule was to only encourage healthy eating and drinking and it gave the wrong impression. Fair do?s thought I, your turf, your call, ?do you have a beaker to decant it into, I?m trying to use the caffeine to stay awake?? to which I get ?Well, what is wrong with you??

Social embarrassment kicks in here, as everyone listened in. I think he carried on talking, but I was now breathing down the tears and held up a hand to stop him, gave ds2 a smile and managed to say ?Let?s go to the loo, ds2?. Managed a reasonably low key exit, but when I left the loo he was there with the manager, blocking the only exit. They were both so nice, anxiously asking if I was OK, but just wouldn?t get out of my way though I?d said I needed to go home and chill out. The manager was very sweet getting ds2 dressed and prammed up though she took for ever, kept trying to get me to talk about it, offering to walk me home, giving me her number and Oh god, I?ve just realised they have mine from sign in sheet, I hope they don?t call.

Oh this is vast. Sorry. I can?t unpick it. Am I oversensitive, are they just doing a job? Is their job to poke at me in this way, that?s how it felt? I?m most annoyed that I?ve been reduced to tears a) in front of ds2 and b) in public and c) had to leave something ds2 was really enjoying. When I am in fact coping pretty damn well. Or am I not coping, if I go over the edge like I?ve described? Obviously I?ve learnt that until I?ve processed this current health problem, I will only be attending/setting up playdates and playgroups I know are much more free range.

Oh and don't worry in the slightest about the "not getting down to the child's level" thing - you're right it's just the current orthodoxy. Whenever I tried to do it, my DS would sink further down - I'm sure he found it odd for a big person to be sitting on the floor!

In future I suggest that you state that you need adult size chairs (or whatever else) due to a "back problem". It will satisfy people who really don't need any more detail.

It sounds as if intentions were good but the help was offered too enthusiastically and was, of course, very off-putting as a result. Since Sure Start are Government funded, they have an additional agenda beyond mere socialising and the staff will be on the look out for anyone with problems. Regardless of whether you have a problem with anything beyond their rules!

As another person with a chronic medical condition that can affect my mobility, I've found that it is always best to make brief mention it when necessary. You don't need to share chapter and verse but "Sorry, my arthritis means I can't sit on the floor", will suffice and avoid the sort of inquisition you suffered.

Maybe I'm a rebel with a healthy disrespect for authority but I can't see why she needs an excuse or reason for not sitting on the floor. What next, bring a note from your mum? FFS etc.

I suppose Surestart are putting on these mornings for free (I assume) and therefore if you want to attend them you have to, to an extent, do as you are told. Surely its a guide rather than an obligation though? Sheesh.

As for the coke, all this healthy eating dogma is starting to get me down, though I acknowledge that diet coke is not the ideal drink. And surely safer than coffee with little people around. But anyway, rules are rules when it comes to things like that, however, telling you how to play with your child, hammering you about your medical condition - what a dreadful place.

I think he was being rude, intrusive and a jobsworth. I can't stand the rule-bound, patronising, officious aspect of Sure Start; their premise is that parents are not to be trusted, and they sometimes have the most ludicrous agenda behind their rules and regulations. I don't buy this 'you go there, you play by their rules' talk - SS is funded by taxpayers' money, and if the rules are absurd, then it's quite acceptable to challenge them.

I quite appreciate that SS are there partly to pick up on parents who might be coping badly, but there's a long way between that and telling people they aren't allowed to sit on adult chairs or drink coca-cola. We have the 'only fruit and veg' snacks rule at our local group, and it drives me insane - my DD needs a high-fat diet for medical reasons, and a slice of apple is just not going to cut it as a snack for her.

Anyway this has turned into a rant at surestart, oops. But as you say, they also offer big benefits - in my case, they are the nearest group to my house, my DD loves it, and without them, I wouldn't have made the friends who have kept me sane through the first two years of my DD's life. So personally I would make an official complaint (by email?) about their unnecessarily intrusive behaviour, but then go again, avail yourself of their facilities, and keep your head held high. No shame in crying - it was their inexcusible behaviour that drove you to it.

Merry, don't feel silly for your reaction, you're stressed & suffering lack of sleep...all your emotions are heightened, so of course the slightest thing will set you off regardless of the intent behind it.

i'm sure they don't make people in wheelchairs get down to floor level, so i'm sure they'll accept you have a medical condition. As someone else mentioned, if you don't want them knowing all the details, just say it's your back. Mind you,then they might tell you off for carrying the chair around with you too

Agree with the other posters, it sounds like they knew they'd c*cked up & tried to help but went to the other extreme. If you can face going back there, it sounds like a good suggestion to speak to the manager first. If you can't speak without crying and don't want to phone then write a note and drop it off or email them your concerns.

It'd be a shame to miss out on the chance to escape home for a day due to this inital bad experience

if it's relatively new, they could well be new staff, and overly keen & precious about the rules etc. if you don't feel you can talk to them (and i get v weepy if tired, let alone 'ill') why don't you just write them a note.

something like 'i do not wish to discuss my medical problems with you, i am already receiving help. what i need from sure start is a place where ds & I can come to see friends, play and relax. We would like to feel that we can have an informal, fun time, letting ds play and have fun. Incidentally, many adults cannot sit on the floor easily - perhaps a few more chairs would make this facility more accessible?'

try to show them what they could be doing to help - ie. just back off & let your ds & you have fun. it sounds like they were well intentioned but getting it wrong.

i've done quite a bit of youth & 'family' work & i always prefer the 'low key' approach - let people relax, be there when they need it, don't foist yourself on them.

You can always drop the note in when you're passing, then arrange to go there with a friend, so they can't corner you again.

Good lord, YANBU, you very politely told him to back off, by saying you couldn't go into it. The DDA entitles you to privacy. I think I would call them when you feel more together, and say that you have a disability, and that you are not required to tell them what it is, but that you found the worker intrusive, persistent when he was asked not to be, and that you felt unwelcome. I would also point out that because of your disabilty you neede to use a chair. I think the staff were overzealous and not at all sensitive to the situation. The coke,I think was a bit pathetic of them really, if you could decant it into the beaker it doesn't look different from coffee really, does it. But when you are feeling stronger, take it up with them. There's no way they should be able to treat someone like that, especially when you are feeling vulnerable.

I was very rudely told I was not allowed to attend a baby massage group with my god-son as I was officially a carer and they were not comfortable with a carer touching a baby in an intimate way.

I look after him at least two days a week and have done since birth, what do they think changing his bum is (a lot more intimate than massaging his head!!)

They seem to always be watching over you and taking notes. I know a few mums who have stopped using the centre for this reason.

I've just stopped by to see if there was anything else to read. Thank you so much for your suport and insights. But most of all thanks to those who've made me smile at last today, particularly a muminsctoland's limbo competition.

i have the number of the manager and an invite to a different centre next week, they actually have easter break sessions, shock horror, noone else does, so may well be down there. if more compos mentis.

anyway, i'm now mostly at the stage of irritation about the coke, the rest of it is par for the course with RA, just what you have to live with and get on with. I can't bear that spoddy fellow to think i give even the mini-est of flying proverbials about a fizzy drink.

Merry, sorry to hear you've had some bad news. You are really not being unreasonable. Playworker A was.

Sounds like they were trying to be overhelpful, and in his case intrusively so.

I'v never been to a Surestart group either, so am not really sure of their rules and regs, but that all sounds mental.

From what I can tell you cope extremely well, and don't let some jobsworth make you think otherwise. And please don't waste anymore tears on someone who frankly sounds like an idiot with too much power.

Free range playgroups definitely the way forward.

they sound like well meaning jobsworth tossers quite frankly. IME of Surestart in my city they tend to take a more pragmatic approach. I don't have physical difficulties and I think it's dreadful to insist adults sit on chairs that are too small!

Oh god, what a t*at he was! I'm sure he was just trying to help - but since when is it really any of his bloody business what chair a parent sits on? And then why the hell did he feel the need to probe in public, rather than just drop it when any other sane person would have once they realised the "leave me alone" vibes you were giving out.

Might be worth a call to manager (who sounds a bit better) to say you didn't appreciate how intrusive he was and that he needs to learn to not intervene when somebody isn't doing as he would like as many people have hidden disabilities etc. that they adjust for themselves and that this is the case with you and you do not have to justify yourself to anyone in the way he seemed to be implying he needed you to. Regardless of how nice his intentions, he needs to know that he actually dealt with the situation atrociously.

And yes, go find yourself a nice free range place. I personally find the one run by the local evangelical church is brilliant for this - my group is so keen to make you like them/join their church that they serve cake and caffeine and let you do whatever you want! I eat cake, DS runs around for an hour, job done.

Take care mb. Sad you have had bad news, and remain in awe of how you deal with all of this shit so well

YANBU but I don't think you are fully aware of the role of sure start centres. They are designed to support the whole family under one roof. A multi-agency approach. The staff were probably trying to see how they could help out of concern BUT I do think perhaps they should have said your obviously having a hard time and arranged to call you or invited you back the following week and just let you know they are there if you need them.

Keep your chin up however much your 'coping' I'm sure some extra support would be helpful - I wish you the best.

yes, IME of the church "outreach" type groups is that they are uber laid back as they are trying so hard not to look as if they are trying to convert everyone!

Think sure start seem to be a really mixed bag- ours is a great place to be.

The kids have water to drink and snacks are fruit and breadsticks but you can bring whatever you or your dc wants to eat/drink (except nuts) but you have to have any food and hot drinks in the kitchen behind the stair gate.
Woman the other day had massive can of red bull no one batted an eyelid.

Suits me cos dd2 is allergic to all sorts and it means I can relax.

Wrt your health issue- he was being really insensitive and the manager thing seems like an overcompensation. Sometimes people just can't help themselves, I sometimes find myself stuck in an awkward conversation with a virtual stranger about my MS when I can't quite work out what to say/do.

will certainly be avoiding from now on, if that's a sample of the usual skill sets in outreach and support mumbar!

it was the full frontal suprise of it all girlsyearapart, like you said, i just felt stuck, then overwhelmed at failure to come up with coherence, when he first spoke to me. when i look at my OP, it all looks like i was coherent in my first answer, but i think it probably came out in squawks.

of course, the classic complaint from most people with RA is that people don't understand it. though i don't mind like they do, i appreciate the rush to empathy, though what we have isn't like grannie's dodgy knee from being a housemaid in the 30s, that's the commonest reaction to saying you have RA it seems. though no less painful i'm sure. grief i'm rambling sorry.

on reflection, i don't think i have to say anything beyond yes i have reason to use a chair. i don't care what the Sure Start remit is as far as it applies to me. I just wanted somewhere childfriendly and local to let ds2 trot around with other kids in, on a rainy day, and for me to have the outside world around me and take my mind of things. Not have it shoved in my face. I manage with great effort to absorb RA into my life without letting it kill off parts of it, like going out, or being engaged with the kids.

HOWEVER, if baring intimate health problems to anyone from sure start would get me 2 hours home help a day, i'm ready to start blabbing to everyone that's the kind of help i need. not folk failing to practice empathy or actually play with the kids.

because, it's just struck me. in the hour i was there, not one of them did directly engage with a child, not once that i saw, til they had to boot and suit ds2 for sobbing wreck here. are they just observers/advisors then?

the ones at ours defintely do engage with the kids- they know all their names and play with them/speak to them etc. sounds like yours is either not so good or they were having an off day? guessing you wouldn't want to be judged on that hour of your life either

Give it another go- they'll probably be extra nice to you!

Hi there, I just wanted to say that I have RA too and understand what you're going through. It is really hard with small kids as you often need to get down on the floor/do dancing activities etc at these groups and I get really stiff and uncomfortable. Not many people know I have it. Not because I'm ashamed, just 'cos it's none of their business and I tend to try not to dwell on it. It's an uncomfortable condition and I often feel tired/ run down with it too. people probably think I'm a lazy arse for not jumping around like the others (am fat too so that probably adds to the stereotype) but sod em all!

It's weird but more and more, anything government funded (schools/surestart etc) seem to think that if you have kids then somehow they have the right to 'tell you off' or boss you around. You are an adult and you can do whatever you damn well want so long as you're not hurting anyone else. F*ck them!!!!