or is this a reasonable offer? (horses and consumer advice)

[bubbleymummy]

I bought a saddle and had it 'fitted' 6 months ago. Found out in feb that the saddle didn't fit, horse had a sore back and informed saddler. Saddler agreed to replace saddle. Got another saddler out to fit my horse (no longer trust first saddler!) and he has said that there was no way that saddle should have been on my horse - not only is it pinching but it is really forward cut and impeding his shoulder movement.

First saddler is arguing that the saddle fitted 6 months ago and horse must have changed shape but I haven't noticed that he has and in any case, his shoulders are in the same place! He offered to exchange saddle (but gave me the wrong size again!!!)

I have now found a saddle that I want from a different saddler but the first saddler is only offering me 70% of the price I paid for my saddle because now he will have to sell it as a second hand saddle. (it is in excellent condition) I just feel it is a bit unfair that I am losing money on the saddle, paying a vet and a physio to sort out my horse's back because it wasn't fitted properly, haven't been able to ride my horse for weeks and the saddler makes money off this and then can make even more by reselling my saddle to someone else!!
So am I being unreasonable to expect more of a refund?

How old is the horse?

9 - does that make a difference?

Although he has already acknowledged the fact he has made a mistake by offering to exchange the saddle, so if he will exchange for new then I guess he should refund you. Or take the new saddle, don't use it and get a refund on it - he cannot say it's second hand then. Or get the vets/physios/new saddlers opinion and threaten him with the bills for the 'damage repair'. Surely they can verify it was the saddlers fault?

Well, I was just thinking if it was a youngster they obviously change shape alot, but then I guess any horse can change abit with weight gain/loss, but you obviously know if he's changed.

Well I have mentioned that but he just shrugs, tells me he's an expert saddle fitter and that the saddle fit 6 months ago, the horse has changed shape and says thats his best offer.

sorry - of course! i was thinking in relation to refund value!

Can the vet/physio say how long he has been using an ill-fitted saddle? Can the new saddler verify the old saddlers replacement saddle also doesn't fit? That should be proof enough he clearly isn't good at his job.

Also, he is not offering me a direct exchange for a new saddle - he is offering me the amount he has valued it at off a new saddle - so I'm still losing money!

I'll ask the physio this week if she could give an idea of how long the damage would have taken. The replacement saddle didn't even get near my horse's back - he gave it to me in the shop to try and told me it was the right size. When I got home I saw the size written on the saddle flap - it was 2 sizes too big!

Shocking. Your physio should be able to tell hopefully if the damage has just been caused, or from months of an ill fitting saddle - maybe get her to jot it down on some headed paper to show the saddler. Say you really should be getting a full refund (did you also pay fitting costs?) plus compensation, but will settle for a refund on the full buying price of the saddle. It will sound like he is getting off lightly (and he is!) Am I right in thinking they have to belong to some sort of association? Like farriers? (Been years since I was in the horsey field - no pun intended)

It's a difficult one. Can you prove the horse has not changed shape and that the saddle did not fit correctly at the time you purchased it? It sounds like he is not going to accept responsibilty for the badly fitted saddle, and that if you do want a full refund and possible compensation you will have to deal with it in a small claims court. Do you feel you could put a case forward to the court that the saddle was not fitted correctly as Im guessing that the onus would be on you to prove it. He is an expert (maybe a crap one!) and that this is his trade, so you would presumably have to present something quite compelling convince a court that he was in fact at fault. If you can't do/don't want to do this then I would take his offer.

I don't think they HAVE to be. The one I am using now is a master saddler and he really is brilliant.

Good suggestion about letter from physio - thanks! I'm just so annoyed about the whole thing

Unfortunately I think this is probably par for the course. If you were to get a third ms in tomorrow he'd have a whole new story.

You know what it's like. You probably think your farrier does a great job, call another one out and he'll suck through his teeth and pull faces.

The other bit I suppose is that you could try small claim's.

I'm a bit confused as to how it can be impeding his shoulder movement if it's positioned correctly far enough back on his back, despite it being forward cut as you suggest. Also, are you using saddle cloths/numnahs even though the saddle should've been fitted to a bare back? This right here is a good example of how people's views differ. I've had a fitter put a saddle further forward than I and a physio did... everyone has different opinions on what is correct and trying to prove "opinion" is bloody difficult.

Good luck for you and your nag asap though.

Thanks for your replies. Yes the onus would be on mr but I think because the new saddler is a master saddler (first one doesn't have an official qualification) his opinion would prob be taken over the first. Also, if I can get letter from Physio confirming how long it would take for the damage to his back to have occurred that would help. I'd rather not go to small claims but considering how much I am losing out with vet and Physio bills I might just have to. I'd be happy to cover those costs if he was offering a decent refund but I'm definitely not happy with his offer at the moment. I'm the only one losing out here because of his mistake!

Re, positioning. It is positioned correctly but it is just really forward cut for his shoulders. (tbred) other saddlers have looked at it and have said they can't think what shape horse it would fit because it's so forward cut and narrow.

Ifeel v.strongly about this I would like a total ban on horses.

I know bugger all about horses or saddles . But as the item has been fitted, the Sale of Goods act clearly states that said item should be Fit for Purpose, and on that premise, provided your physio/vet and new Master Saddler will give you a written testimony that the saddle you originally bought was incorrectly fitted by your first saddler, causing your horse problems, I think you have a strong case for small claims.

I'd send off a Letter Before Action, hopefully he should cough up

Thanks brumusa. That's the angle I was thinking of going for. I'm seeing the saddler tomorrow and Physio later in the week so I'll ask them about getting a letter and then even just approach the first saddler with this to show that I do intend to take it further if necessary. Hopefully that will be enough!