in thinking that it is excessive to try to protect a child from abuse by not allowing that child to ever be alone with a man?

[mrsbean78]

I am on another forum and this came up.

It is a genuine AIBU. The person on the forum had sadly had experiences herself and has made a pact with her dh that her children will never be allowed in a room with a lone man, including all of her family and all of his, and all their male friends.

I know there are many people on here who have had the horrendous experience of abuse, however when someone else on the forum suggested this action would in itself teach a very negative lesson about sexuality (e.g. that all men are predators), I found myself nodding in agreement.

BUT

I have never been in this position, so I wonder what others think? Am I just naive to think this is going too far to protect a child, even from something as terrible as abuse?

iirc there is a mumsnetter who takes this very approach.

It is IMO very, very damaging.

YANBU.

I don't mean to be flip here, but I doubt she could keep it up for long anyway - for example those of us with dogs swear blind at first that we'll never leave them alone with the children, but it happens.
Sometimes children (especially when you have more than one)/pets/men move around rooms of the house far too quickly and regularly (especially at family gatherings, parties etc) for you to be everywhere at once.

It would look bizarre as her or her partner shadowed the child/their male friends and family around the house like they're marking a football opponent.
The visits would dry up pretty soon I reckon.

What pagwatch and SGB said (minus priest part-am atheist).

I have had my struggles with it to be honest, but ds doesn't need to know that, much less suffer from it. The panic comes up and it's a lonely place to be. Why would I want him to join me in the lonely panic place? Ugh. I don't even tell DH. I want ds to have all the strength and confidence and innocence I lost, and he will.

This is normal in ex h's culture, small children aren't left alone with men other than father, and his brothers, mothers brothers and grandfathers (yes, yes, we all know that father and uncles and grandfathers can abuse, but it is the best compromise they can make, only men that one parent has grown up with).

Our children had this experience until they were old enough to talk clearly about such things. Of course, it goes without saying that the children themselves were unaware of it, and therefore didnt draw any conclusions. ds now has a brilliant man teacher.

It is understood by the men as well, btw.

I would agree with the whole of SGB first post. Highly damaging for the DC. I refuse to bring up my DCs in such an atmosphere of fear and mistrust.

I was abused by a very close female relative when I was young so I am fully aware that women can abuse too, sadly it has messed me up but I will not make my children victims too ...
I think is awful to tar all men with the same brush as possible abusers

I think a more constructive would be to impart to a DC some age-appropriate guidelines on safe relationships and places on the body it's OK to allow showing/looking/touch - and to tell a DC that it's always OK to say no to what an adult asks...

pisces
whatever you may think, it is not highly damaging to children. My children are not highly damaged.

It is excessive and unrealistic. But it is obviously how the OP (of the other thread) feels she has to behave to manage her fears. But I think it will be difficult to 'police' and is not hugely healthy attitude.

And whoever said women abuse children too, good point.

Of course it is highly damaging to bring up a child to think that every stranger is a danger! This stops normal friendly relations. You can think what you like, but IMO it means that instead of the world being a wonderful place, full of opportunities, it becomes narrow and suspicious. My grandfather loved small children. When I was a child all the children around came around to speak to him. We have a photo of him in hospital-when I asked who the little girl was sitting on his bed it was just one visiting someone else on the ward. He would have been cut off from much innocent pleasure if he couldn't have talked to them. He wasn't a child abuser.He would have been upset and horrified if he had been viewed that way.
Instead of making your DCs fearful, you empower them by giving them rules-e.g. if anything makes them uncomfortable they tell you, do not go off with a stranger, whatever the excuse, do not take sweets from strangers etc etc.

When you hear mothers tell their DC, 'stay near mummy or you might be 'taken'' I think it highly damaging for the DC. The idea that the world is such a dangerous place that they are only safe with mummy is highly damaging. Boys over 7 yrs shouldn't be in a ladies toilet.
I accept that you might disagree, but I am certainly not going to tell mine they might be taken-I am going to tell them how not to be 'taken'.

It is really sad that she feels this need, but she def needs councelling, not to be doing this to her children. As for the DH agreeing, maybe he's just going along with it for now, until it becomes an issue, hoping that over time she will see this isn't necessary/healthy. If he's agreeing because he really does think it's for the best - then I'd be a bit

Apart from the 'Rights & Wrongs' of this - how on earth would you make it work without never letting your children out of your sight or telling everyone that this is what you expect. Imagine leaving the kids at your parents then telling your Mum & Dad that your Dad isn't to be left alone with them? That would go down well

(substitute BRO/SIL, SIS/BRO, Friends etc).

I didn't realise that this included your own parents! I was my grandfather's little shadow when I was a toddler. To stop us being alone would have been cruel to both.
I think she needs counselling- it is wrong to project her own problems onto her children.
She will actually find it impossible, once they are older-unless she wants to be glued to them, to police it.

pisces
you are talking about something that you dont know about. the rule is NOT that no man can talk to the children, simply that no man can take them off alone anywhere. I said below, which men are not included in that.

My children are not fearful, I actually asked ds (he is 10 now) today if he was aware that as a small child, he had not been left alone with men outside the family, and he looked blank and said "no".

It's different if it's cultural, nighbynight.
Surely your child would have been more likely to remember it if it was not the cultural norm and many male members of the family were distinctly unhappy about it. If it is what everyone does and has always done, it is unlikely to cause offence.
Also, surely the reason such a rule exists in a culture is to do with gender expectations of men and women vs suspicion that men are potential paedophiles? That must fundamentally alter the reception of the practice by both men and children.
However, in my culture, I imagine it would make men feel like suspected paedophiles/predators, creating tension..

I think that it is different if it is cultural and the norm. There is no way that I would do it. I am not going to give them the message that only women are safe (dangerous in itself as in no way is it true)and frankly insulting to most men. My DCs are male-what sort of message would I be giving them?-that they are untrustworthy?

There is no mention in OP that it is cultural and the OP won't leave them alone with males in the family-(I bet she isn't 100% sure of her DP but as he is an equal parent she doesn't have the choice.)Her message to the child is '-you mother is the only person you can trust' and I believe that to be deeply damaging for a DC. I think she should have sorted out her own issues before she had a child.

The woman is obviuously some sort of screw ball. To instill the message that 50% of the human race are dangerous predators is just plain stupid.

It is very extreme. Ds is only 3 but so far has never been left alone with a male apart from dh and his grandad but this is an unconscious thing, not an active decision to limit his contact with males. He has the odd afternoon with his uncle and gf so it is reasonable to expect that he is sometimes alone with his uncle (toilet etc) and this doesn't bother me in the slightest. I have wondered because I remember ages ago reading a similar thread on here. a poster said he and his wife worked with victims of abuse and as a result they had a rule like this, to include all male family members except the dad. And I did think it odd but somehow it stayed in my head and occasionally I wonder about if I should be more aware. But then rational thought kicks in and I dismiss it!

Dh has an (older) cousin and she and her bf love ds to pieces, they (he) do(es) ask if we want him to stay the night with them so we can go out and I have not been keen, there is something that makes me uncomfortable about her bf and his interest in all the kids; takes lots of pictures of them, keen to have them to stay, that strikes me as odd in a 50 yr old man thats never had his own kids. I am aware this is all conjecture and based on very spurious 'gut instinct' which could be strikingly unfair. He would be horrified if he knew I felt uncomfortable, as would dh, but I keep it to myself and just wave off the offers because I know I could be totally nuts and won't tar him or me with my own paranoia. But this kind of thing I will do, because limiting contact with one person, or people as your instinct tells you to, is different from dismissing an entire gender out of hand. Or so I think anyway.

I was abused from the age of 4-12 by my so called brother,I attended counselling years ago and 2 of the women had been abused by women also men women abuse boys as well as girls.Was very protective of eldest when a tot but I had loads of issues still you cannot protect your child forever, I am probably more protective of my son as he is so vulnerable.

i can understand why that mum might have thought its a good idea having been through abuse herself and may be just feeling terrified of the same thing happening to her own dcs but this solution is not really a good idea for the reasons everyone has mentioned. i think she is just trying to protect them in whatever way she can, although misguided

Nothing to add of a constructive nature but have just been pondering all the points raised.

I can't think of a single occasion where any of my three have been left alone with a man. This is in no way because I have orchestrated it like that, just because there aren't any males we know that would ever 'do' baby sitting duty.

I reckon there aren't that many circumstances where kids would be left alone with men (particularly outside the immediate family). No fellas I know are going to be chomping at the bit to look after my three horrors children.

I agree with Firawla. I havent read the whole thread but i agree that it is definitely not in the best interests of the children to keep them away from males.

However, I think that the woman needs understanding and talking to in the nicest possible way. She is a victim too and is doing what she believes is right for the children.

Many of us have been abused before but each of us still have different experiences and personalities/outlooks on life.

I dont think it is our place to judge her. She is not purposely being cruel to her children, she just doesnt know that this is not the best way of going about things.

It is no wonder that they can't recruit men to work in the primary school, especially in the nursery and reception classes, when any man is seen as a potential paedophile. It would mean that my 17yr DS couldn't have babysat for my friends. I think it is so sad that 50% of the human race is under suspicion. It isn't healthy, and it isn't healthy for boys to think they will be viewed in that way once they get past about the age of 12yrs.