to be utterly fed up with kneejerk prejudice against those with depression and mental illness?

[allegrageller]

This follows on from another thread where it's been (outrageously) suggested that someone who has 'had a breakdown and suffers from a mental illness' should not have care of their children.

I am so sick of the ignorance and prejudice that surrounds any form of mental illness. In fact I'm starting to hate the term 'mentally ill' as it immediately conjures images of malfunctioning human beings who need to be hospitalised and kept away from others.

yes some of us with depression or other mental health problems will need the odd period of hospitalisation or time off work and even possibly childcare. So do people with liver disease, ME or cancer. This does not make them unsuitable parents. They may need support to do the best they can. This does not make them bad parents.

So may i say to those who think people with mental health problems are 'unfit' in any way a big s*d off please? (possibly that IS unreasonable...lmao. but I'm so very about this).

i saw the comment on that thread....thought you handled it very well though!

i agree with you.....BUT have experience of a very,very,very abusive ex h,who i'm told,has extreme mental illness and has now been asessed as high risk to women!! he has also been totally banned from any contact with our 4 dc's!!! after all i went through with this man (he tried to murder me and admitted this to his psychiatrist) i still feel you are right!!!

YANBU. But there should be more support available to people with depression. Children, unfortunately can and do suffer as a result of their parents depression. I know mine did, I couldn't function propely, let alone give them any semblence of routine. They were warm, fed and loved though.

However this doesn't mean that the they should be removed, just that the parent should be offered more support.

I think many people still don't understand depression, so they are scared of it. I know that before I suffered with it, my mum didn't 'believe' in depression and was under the impression that people could just 'pull themselves together' but were 'too lazy' to do so .

I have no idea what thread to which you refer, but your point seems a little odd.

Many people who have had a breakdown and suffer from a mental illness are perfectly good parents ans should and do have the care of their children.
Some, however, are not and should not.

Its more than a little naive to suggest that having a mental illness would never render you incapable of being a fit parent, as that is patently untrue.

yeah 3blonde...there is mental illness and there is abusive/violent behaviour, and of course sometimes they are linked...but not always.

I once heard a guy say with regard to a murder case that 'well she was mad, she'd been depressed for years' ?! In fact depressive people are very very unlikely to be violent to anyone except themselves.

It's the fact that mental illness is ALWAYS associated with dangerous behaviour that gets to me.

yeah Shiny, both my parents were depressive in different ways (and they passed it on ) but they tried. The stigma attached to admitting depression really doesn't help anyone and the kind of attitude I'm complaining about is not supportive just punitive.

I agree, it is hugely sad and can have terrible consequences for some people with mental health problems. I am sure that the awareness of prejudice contributed to a friend's suicide when she was in her 20's.

She was very depressed, but focused on how it would be so difficult for her to get a job/mortgage/home/life with a diagnosis of depression behind her. Knowing how prejudiced the world can be against mental illness was one factor that stopped her seeking help, as she didn't want any of that on her records.

She did get help in the end, but it didn't save her. I have been depressed in the past, and am very open about it. The only small way I can try to change things.

runny....that is hardly what I said.

Many parents are 'unfit' because they are selfish or neglectful. This is not a mental illness. Depressed mothers are quite often very good mothers indeed. The fact of mental illness should not be synonymous with an assumption of unfit parenting, but it too often is.

god nightlark how sad

Yes, it is. I remember sitting with her in her flat, trying to find the words to say that there was a way through this, but she was so fixed on how no-one would ever give her a job if they knew she'd had depression, and then she'd have no home, no life. I wish I could have helped her more.

Sadly there is still an enormous stigma to psychiatric illness and one's ability to care for children.

There was a very sad thread not long ago where people were terrified to admit they were struggling with depression (to their GPs) and were frightened they might have their children taken from them. The main consensus was that help and support ought to be made easily available without fear of retribution from certain departments.

While the word 'mental' is still used as an insult by many people, I fear that there will always be a stigma attached to it.

that is what you said here. Please read your OP back. If you had further points on a previous thread you should have kept the discussion there or at least linked to it.

You need to be clearer in your definitions. Women with PND/reactive depression/ etc; probably perfectly good parent. Paranoid schizophrenic/ untreated bi-polar; possibly less so.

You can't lump in all forms of mental illness together.

No you can't runny, that's true

Runnybottom

I have a close friend with schicophrenia - she runs two successful business.

The mentally ill suffer horrendous prejudice in all areas of life.

true to some extent runny BUT a lot of women and men with WELL MANAGED schizophrenia and bipolar are good parents.

the illness needs treatment, and they need support, yes. This does not mean they cannot care for others, or work, or that they are 'unfit' citizens in any way.

At the extreme end of depression, for instance, if a woman is unable to care for her children at that point she needs help. but most people with depression will never reach this point... it's just assumed that they do.

in terms of mental health the 'worst case scenario' is always assumed- whereas in cases of poor physical health this is not the case and no blame is ever attached...that's what I'm trying to say.

yep amber, that's exactly what I mean. 'Schizophrenics' are considered to be 'mad'.

I particularly find it disturbing runny that you claim bipolar people are probably not good parents. There's absolutely no evidence for this in most cases. Do you know anyone with bipolar? they are very unlikely to appear 'mad' and are usually doing their best to manage their illness. But they are painted as dangerous nutters and bad parents because their illness is wrongly assumed to be 'madness'.

(i know you said 'untreated' bipolar btw, but you do realise that's very, very rare? As is 'paranoid' schizophrenia? Those cases cannot account for the massive level of prejudice levelled against other mentally ill people).

Which is why I said possibly less so.

I'm just pointing out that you are not doing your cause (which I completely agree with) by having loose definitions and seeming to assume that all forms of mental illness are the same.

For what its worth, in my experience, I have not found the majority of people to make assumptions as you describe, thankfully. My mother had lifelong mental health issues and I suffer from PND at the moment, so I do have quite a lot of experience.

I have periodic bouts of depression and have been on citalopram for about 18m. Someone I work with has more serious on-going depression. We talk about it sometimes but have to be so discrete for the simple reason that someone standing around talking about their depression would freak people out Whereas if I was talking about my athsma wouldn't bother them. There still is stigma.

I don't assume that at all. But the issue of prejudice against the mentally ill IS loosely defined in itself. It gets defined as serious, dangerous and antisocial even when it is not. It is that sort of loose definition that's dangerous- and the assumption needs to be challenged.

i dont' think we do our cause any good by focusing on the very few cases in which a mentally ill person is 'dangerous' or a 'bad parent' tbh. There are far more dangerous and toxic people who are not, but we don't seem to have to focus on them when defining other groups, such as the physically ill.

for instance, most people would balk at the idea of accusing 'untreated diabetics' of bad parenting... yet 'untreated bipolar' is commonly touted as terribly dangerous. Etc.

Mental illness is more difficult to see or understand than physical medical conditions, therefore it scares people.

This prejudice, like all others, is based on fear.

I suffer from extreme rapid cycling bi-polar. i take medication and active steps in my lifestlye to prevent as many ups and downs as possible, and keep stresses to a minimum. I have recently been diagnosed and have been suffering for 5 years. The only people who havent sufferd for the this time is my children, i do more with them than other mothers i know in a way to make up for having this problem. im terrified evey time i have a review in case they decide i shouldnt have my babies with me. Im a fantastic mom whatever stage im at, but to many people, including the proffessionals, wont see that, they see extreme bipolar on my notes and thats all

No I totally agree.
I experienced discrimination which almost resulted in me being disqualified from my course at uni due to having suffered (very well controlled) depression for several years.
An old dinosaur of a doctor from the occupational health department told me I was too fragile wouldn't cope, wouldnt be able to leave my work behind etc, stupid woman who would crumble under the pressure type thing. The asshole also told me those on anti depressants cant work shifts- a load of utter utter bollocks to be honest and this is from a so called medical professional!
We need to change EVERYONES perception of mental illness if we are to make any change at all, we need to get it out there how its no different in essence to a diabetic or epileptic having an acute episode of the illness but then going on to being perfectly well and controlled by their medication.
I despise mental health predjudice and stigamtism and support ALL campaigns to stop people being discriminated against
breathes again

Forgive my ignorance but is there a Minister for Mental Health (given that 1 in 3 suffer) ?

but this is not helped by the assumption that anyone who commits a horrific crime such as murdering their own children must be suffering from mental illness.

We see it on here time and time again. That mother who murdered her two children recently and stuffed their bodies in the boot of the car "must have been suffering from mental illness as apparently never recovered following the death of her first child."

The father who jumped off the balcony in greece with his two children "must have been suffering from mental illness." In fact was charged as such and spent time in a psychiatric hospital, but opinion is divided.

If committing a horrific crime like the ones mentioned above is automatically linked to mental illness, then the automatic conclusion to draw is that mental illness can equal the perpitration of harm or worse, to one's children.

I agree, there is prejudice. But while mental illness is used as a get-out for some of the most horrendous crimes then this prejudice will always exist.

YANBU at all - and i agree with amber - its fear that breeds prejudice. I often see on the news etc people saying how mentally ill people shouldn't be allowed "out in society" - and whilst I accept there are some mental illnesses that can b a danger to others most are not and thats what we seem to have lost sight of. Its like saying all young black males have a predisposition to join gangs. We know that it may seem that way but it would be considered a massive prejudice to go around saying that as this is just another example of tarring with the same brush.

What worries me is as someone described earlier - the stigma is so great that it stops people getting the help they need. If u r receiving help then its really no different than having diabetes or epilepsy - yes one may be ill but one is receiving treatment.

The "danger" for want of a better word is the 100s of undiagnosed or scared people with mental health issues who aren't getting help and therefore not managing their illness. The same as someone who does not have treatment for managing their epilepsy could put their children at risk, or the general public if they are out in their car, it is the same with mental health issues - its only a danger if it is not being treated.

Well done for flagging this up - the more it is talked about the less of a taboo it will be