to wish this woman would go away?

[Coldhands]

I have made some fantastic friends through going to toddler groups and we regularly meet up at one persons house each week. She is very friendly and lovely but I feel she is being taken advantage of.

She knows another mum who is having problems with drugs and alcohol. I have never been that keen on this other mum. She is a single parent (which has nothing to do with me not liking her btw) with 2 3 yo boys. They are not well behaved at all as she doesn't discipline them and doesn't really take much responsibility for them. She thinks that as they are 3 it is too late for her to do anything about their behaviour and often gets my friend to tell them off for her.

This woman was trying to help herself but now she has gone back to the drugs and my friend is losing patience with her as she doesn't seem to want to help herself anymore. She texts my friend about what she is doing and my friend won't llie so she tells her but doesn't invite her along. This woman doesn't take the hint and comes anyway complete with her not very endearing children. On a night out once this woman phoned my friend and asked where she was so she could meet up with us (her on a night out is not a good idea as apprently she gets in a state and then needs looking after). My friend told her not too as we weren't sure where we were going at the time, but she kept insisting. Not quite sure what happened but she didn't come anyway.

Yesterday this woman turns up again where we were and my friend was not impressed and said that she "didn't bloody invite her." Then this woman annoyed her talking about something that my friend told her she didn't want to talk about as it was stressing her out, this woman carried on anyway but we all left soon after. My friend seemed very wound up as this woman is being very demanding on her time and they recently had a heated discussion at 1 in the morning on the phone as this woman wanted to go and see my friend as her sisters house who she was babysitting for. When my friend asked her if she minded not coming over as she wanted some time to herself (a very rare thing for her) this woman said "actually I do mind" .

I wish this woman would just sod off tbh, it is getting my friend down and she has enough on her plate atm. Plus there are a few of us who just don't really want her in our circle of friends (this isn't us being cliquey, we always welcome new mums to the group and invite them out with us). Someone who is into drugs and has brattish children that she won't do anything about is just not someone I want to be friends with.

WWYD and AIBU?

Your friend should stop inviting problemwoman to things, this is what she is doing by informing problemwoman of her whereabouts all the time.

Perhaps your friend could change her phone number and simply avoid problemwoman - at least at the ages your kids are now it sounds like your friend does not have to run into problemwoman every day on the school run - she needs to take action to drop her while she still can!

Your friend needs to harden up and not text/call this woman back when she rings to ask where you will all be. It might seem harsh but it doesn't sound like your friend owes her any compassion, she sounds like a right pain in the arse.

Of course if someone has drink/drug problems then we should be there to help them, but in real life the situation is often a lot murkier than that and they just become takers (which it sounds like this woman has become). Your poor friend probbaly doesn't want to be cast as the 'baddie' in this situation, but she really must stand up to this woman and her tactics, for the sake of her (and all of your) dcs.

Maybe somebody could anonymously send her some leaflets on getting help for substance abuse?

YANBU, your friend should not tell her where she is going or what she is up to. Yes change telephone number, and if she comes round tell dont answer the door tell her that she is busy. I know that it sounds harsh but you obviously dont want her as a friend.

Unfortunately she can't totally avoid this pain in the ass woman as they go to the same group each week.

I too think she should just stop answering her texts. She won't lie to her which is fair enough but if she didn't reply this woman wouldn't have the info then. Although I know my friend didn't text her again yesterday cause when this woman turned up, first thing she said was "you said you were going to tell me when you were leaving" or something along those lines. My friend told her she forgot but was very chatty with her after so this woman could be getting mixed messages but when my friend tells her some of the hints she texts or says to her, I would think it is more than enough to get the hint. This woman seems to be very thick skinned.

She knows how to get help for substance abuse as she was doing it which is why my friend was helping her, but now she has gone back again, my friend isn't willing to help someone who won't help themselves.

Just becasue she is on drugs does not mean that your friend has to help her and be her friend, noway. Next time the friend comes round maby your friend should give her some information on where she can get help.

Your friend has to not give this lady mixed messages, she has to maintain a coolness and distance towards her, and not give out any information to her. I know that its hard but the alternative is this will keep happening.

I know I know!! It drives me mad cause my friend is just so nice, which is why I like her obviously .

I honestly don't know if she will be cool towards her. I know she really needs to and she is really starting to lose her patience with this woman. Hopefully she will start being more firm. If it comes up again, I will suggest that she just doesn't reply to her texts or is very vague about it.

It seems as though the nice ones are taken advantage of. Yes the only answer is that your friend really needs to toughen up towards her or she will be trodden on. Mabey you could help her be more assertive, dont have to be horrible or nasty but assertive.

Could you convince your friend that actually it will be better for this woman if she does make it clear to her that she's not prepared to meet up with her until she gets her act together? A sort of "tough love" approach? As long as she's giving mixed messages, the other woman can choose to think she's just busy, or forgetful, or scatty, and not have to face the fact that she has to sort out her problems if she wants people to be friends.

Your friend could just tell problemwoman that as she is no longer trying to sort herself out, she doesn't want her own children exposed. She could say that once problemwoman gets herself sorted, or seriously trying to, then she will be happy to be with her again.

It might even motivate problemwoman to start helping herself again.

Mind you, the next time she joins your group, either at the m&t group or somewhere else, you could all tell her that unless she gets herself back on track none of you want her around, you're all concerned about your kids etc. That might seem like bullying, but if you present a united front you could make a difference. You'd need to do it constructively and kindly of course.

If your friend is so nice, this might give her some thought: if she doesn't stop things now, she may "snap" and stop things in an altogether more unpleasant way.

Which would she prefer? To "get out of it" in a controlled way (in which she tells the woman up front and in advance how she feels), or snap one day (scream, ignore a crisis) when the woman "needs" her. If she lets it get to crisis, she will no doubt then feel guilty for being nasty, letting the woman down, etc. She will either have to live with that guilt (but without the stress of that woman), or she will feel so bad she will try to "make it up" (letting the woman "get away" with even more).

No matter how this situation plays out, your friend has to be a bit tough, and will have to do something uncomfortable: put up with behaviour she knows is bad (and annoy her DCs and other friends), snap and do something "mean", possibly feel guilty enough to let the woman get away with worse.

It;s a shame she's in this situation, but we all are faced with being tough; it comes with being a parent and having to stand up for (and to) our children.... so the practice will not be wasted!

It really sounds like your friend NEEDS to lose patience with this woman and be absolutely blunt with her.

WWYD : I would be blunt with the woman. You can do nothing when she attaches herself to your friend alone, but when she turns up to group 'events' you can do something. When her child is brattish and she does nothing, you can bluntly say to her 'FGS do something about your child's behaviour!' When she turns up uninvited, say bluntly 'Why are you here, you were not invited.'

Yes it is rude, but either you or your friend have to do this and you sound pretty sure that your friend can't.

You could also encourage your friend to change her number. If she can't bring herself to not answer, her response to 'what are you doing' should be 'why do you ask'. Is she responds with 'I want to join you', friend should respond 'I'd rather you didn't/I'm busy/I don't want that'. She should not facilitate the gatecrashing by giving information.

I'm going to stick my neck out here...
Did she have problems with drugs and alcohol before she had her twins? Why is she a single parent? Did her partner walk out on her? I'm a mum of three-year-old twins myself. It is exhausting and VERY hard work. I do not have a drink or drugs problem, but I do have a very supportive DH, which makes a world of difference. Without him, I have no idea where - or what - I'd be. A mess, probably.
This woman appears not to have the support of anyone, other than contact with your friend. Yes, I understand that your friend believes problemwoman needs to help herself, but I can't help feeling that closing ranks against this woman and cutting herself out of your lives completely is wrong for the sake of her children (and while you feel they are obnoxious, they ARE still three years old, and evidently having a very unstable upbringing).
So I'd get together as a group, and tell her you understand how tough it must be. Tell her she needs help, and you will do all you can to make sure she gets it from the relevant sources (has anyone thought of involving her HV or SS? Come on - two three year olds home alone in a home with a drug-taking mother can't be right!). It's not up to you to help her yourselves - you're right, it's not your responsibility. But I do think it's your responsibility as the community around her to make sure her DTs are adequately protected, and she gets the support she needs.
Sorry if I've put any backs up here. But I think the reason for her 'needy' and thick-skinned behaviour is because, well, she needs help. And sometimes, when you're exhasted and frightened, it's not that easy to help yourself.

YANBU - You are not responsible for her and anyway the drugs thing is a v big turn off, even if you did not have your kids around her which is prob inadvisable.

I can see one might have sympahty for her, but at what cost to you?

Does your friend like this woman as a person? If this woman was clean would she want a friendship with her or does she just feel sorry for her? If the answer is no to both than why should she be friends with someone that she does not like just because she needs help. Yes it sounds as though the lady does need help getting off drugs and a friend or two to talk to and help, mabey the op and her friends are not the ones to offer friendship, as they sound like they are not keen on her anyway.

The problemwoman should want to help herself, no amount of helping or guidence will help if the lady does not want to or does not see a problem. Your friend should encourage the lady to talk to her HV or GP who will give her advice on how to get clean and where she can go to meet other people, like Surestart or HOmestart or initiatives like that. I am not sure are there befrienders, mabey this lady could benefit from one of those, I know that MIND had a befriending scheme a few years ago. If the woman wanted to get clean there are so many places that she could go to to meet people, not like this though while she is still on drugs.

Thanks for the replies everyone.

(Just thinking through all I have read)...I could speak out less than my friend, I just can't say anything to anyone. The suggestion that I turn around and say "why are you here, you weren't invited" Oh how I would LOVE to say that but I really am a wimp and I am not entirely sure how she would react. She has been arrested numerous times (although I think it was when she was drunk). This has been going on for a long time. Way before she had children. She has the support of family who help out quite a bit, they are aware of her problems but have always chosen to bury their heads in the sand.

I'm not sure if my friend likes her, I know once she said she is a nice person. I should ask her.

She is already involved with something from Pigletmanias list. (I'm trying not to give too much away really, don't think I'm being that successful). She has been to various people who are in a position to help her. She was trying hard but now she isn't again, and this is why my friend is fed up. She knows where to go to get clean etc but it seems that she isn't interested. Social Services were first mentioned when a particular incident happened but my friend didn't want to go down that route and I am not suppose to know too much information. However if something did happen, I would not hesitate to phone them myself.

I agree with many on here that say my friend needs to get tough and I think she may have got to that point judging from how pissed off she was the last time I saw her. Next time the subject comes up, I will try and talk to her.

Even if she got her problems sorted, I still don't want her around if she can't be bothered to control her DCs. I know it is hard and I reallt wouldn't want to be on my own for anything, but there are things she could do, like not letting them run around at 10 o clock at night, but she doesn't listen and just says, oh I know I should be doing that, but never does it. She just isn't my type of person at all.