to think that our new SureStart centre shouldn't flog homeopathy?

[Elpis]

Among the stay and play and breastfeeding sessions is a three-hour weekly "homeopathy clinic" at which a local homeopathist will advise you on "treating" all sorts of childhood ailments. Now, I am very open-minded about many forms of alternative medicine - I have regular acupuncture sessions that I find extremely beneficial, and I think herbal medicine has a lot to offer - but why is homeopathy being promoted by a state-funded, state-run centre? It's not even as though the placebo effect will work on babies.

I think you are being unreasonable actually. I have been using Homeopathy to treat minor ailments for myself and my three DC's and believe that we are healthier because of it. We have largely managed to avoid anti biotics and do not routinely use paracetamol, cough mixture, etc. The classic "does it work" "proof" with children is the use of Arnica to prevent bruises, treating both externally and internally. I do not believe that Homeopathy has all the answers all of the time, in the same way that I do not believe that conventional medicine has all of the answers. Where health is concerned, an open mind is important and I do find it odd that you are open minded to accupuncture and herbal medicines but do not feel that other people have a right to choose homeopathy. One thing is sure, however, that there are no unwanted side effects to Homeopathy, the same cannot be said for most conventional medicines. I think your Surestart centre should be applauded.

i would be concerned that vulnerable parents might think the centre was endorsing the use of homeopathy to be honest.
While homeopathy might not have any side effects, what if the mother eschews proper medical help when actually it is urgently needed, in favour of sugar pillules....

Each to their own, if you're not interested then presumeably you can avoid it. Others might be interested to find out something different.

is arnica homeopthy? I thought that was herbalism.

depends what ailments they're advising on and why it is they're running the sessions

if they're making money for the centre then surely that's great?

my sister has set up a second hand clothes shop thing at hers to raise more money for the kids

The state should not be funding or be seen to be supporting fraudulent gibberish like this. They are sugar pills, nothing more. All positive stories about homoeopathy are down to the placebo effect.

I'm with Elliemental on this.

I have successfully treated my cat on more than one occasion and there are farmers (not a group generally known for airy-fairy flights of fancy) who use it on cattle. Obviously placebo effect.

yes, RacingSnake... your cat proves it....

I thought it was shown to work well on babies for teething pain etc. It certainly helped mine. How can the placebo effect work on babies?

Well I didn't actually get the calpol out and it's worked on every one of ds' 8 teeth. I think I can tell the difference between him being in pain and not . Also, you can get drops instead of sugar pills and the pills can be crushed and put in bm which means they wouldn't even notice the taste. Maybe I'll just give him a spoonful of sugar next time and let you know how he gets on with that seeing as it's just the sweet thing ghat makes him feel better

I'm completely fine with secondhand sales and all that. But I don't see how letting a homeopath practise from the premises makes money for the centre - and if it does, hmm: I'm not so keen on that either!

Certainly arnica helps bruises - externally, anyhow. And I don't like giving DD medicine unless it's required (fortunately she's only ever needed Calpol). But homeopathy ... well, I just don't get it. And given a select committee has just recommended that the NHS stop funding it, even for adults who might benefit from the placebo effect, it seems inappropriate.

But maybe I should lighten up and try to see it as just another kind of irrational and comforting belief. We all need those sometimes.

That's not placebo effect though bubbleymummy it's called regression to the mean. Can I ask how long it took for your child's teeth to stop hurting each time?

Regression to the mean, means the natural cycle for you to start feeling better without intervention. So, your child's teeth will have naturally stopped hurting after a short period of time - as teething often does - it has nothing to do with the sugar drops. Your DCs would have got better anyway.

sugar and infant pain

and here

clinical triels recorded on homeopathy

So actually, sugar is proven more effective infant analgesic in reasonable laboratory conditions than homeopathic remedies WITHOUT sugar

YANBU homeopathy is nothing more than sugar pills

YANBU - surestart should be for sensible stuff. Homeopathy is a load of crud.

Why not make a placard and have a one woman protest outside the Sure Start centre?

A trial in Elland a few years ago where a homeopathy clinic was set up at a Surestart centre showed that 60% of the respondants visited the GP less often after attending the clinic and 85% found the clinic helpful.

I've treated ear infections that clear up within 24 hours when repeated doses of anti biotics simply left DS with tummy problems, infant thrush within 48 hours when 6 weeks of conventional medicine simply stopped the condition from worsening, sickness and diarrhea symptoms in family cleared up in 24 hours when the rest of the hotel were much more ill for longer, and a myriad of childhood gunky eyes, runny noses, fevers, coughs, dicky tummies etc.

Positive research summary here

One of the reports sited here shows that water containing homeopathic dilutions did change the physio chemical properties of the water, which was unexplained by molecular theory. Countering the argument that homeopathy is nothing more than sugar pills.

One of the challenges of clinical trials in Homeopathy is that people presenting with the same symptoms do not necessarily respond to the same remedy, the entire physical and emotional history is required to make a diagnosis which could indicate different remedies for different people. Therefore simply giving everyone with a headache the same remedy will not result in everyone seeing their symptoms improve and therefore the treatment does not readily conform to the criteria of standard clinical trial.

Long term use of antibiotics and calpol has been clinically proven to be damaging to our health, surely other options are worth considering.

Off soap box!!

it isn't really about whether homeopathy 'works' or not, it's more that Children's centres are NOT medical centres.
It is innaproiate for them to be seen to be endorsing one thing over another.

I work with mothers with a range of mental helath problems, and my worry is vulnerable parents might for example, give homepathis remedy for a stomach ache, instead of finding out why the child has a stomach ache - eg appendicitis!

and I am not adverse to brewig up a herbal remedy for my children - once i have had a proper diagnosis!

YANBU. If they're opening the door to random unendorsed businesses then presumably local restaurants, supermarkets, clothes shops should be allowed in - which I bet they aren't allowing, which means they're endorsing quackery.

Ellie - arnica can be bought as a tincture that is arnica in alcohol - it's dirt cheap and usually found next to castor oil and stuff in big chemists. Unfortunately homeopaths also sell highly-priced 'arnica', ie water that might have seen a molecule of the stuff, diluted to guarantee there's none in it, claiming the water 'remembers' the arnica molecule - and then adds sugar and dries the water away, leaving a sugar pill. Now that would be bloody clever water to remember when it's not even there!

There is some evidence that arnica solution helps alleviate bruising etc - and for £1.69 I figured it was worth a try. Homepathic 'arnica' is obviously as bollocks as any other homeopathy.

I would only object if it was a free course, paid for by the state.

I don't know much about homeopathy, but I know several people who drone on and on about how wonderful it is and how it has cured their non-existent ailments, like being unable to stop gazing at their navels. The placebo effect is real, but it doesn't necessitate a free course in a government building.

If people want to pay for this out of their own pocket, then good for them.

It doesn?t all add up ?
The ?science? behind homeopathy

Many people confuse homeopathy with herbalism and do not realise just how far homeopathic remedies are diluted. The typical dilution is called ?30C?: this means that the original substance has been diluted by 1 drop in 100, 30 times. On the Society of Homeopaths site, in their ?What is homeopathy?? section, they say that ?30C contains less than 1 part per million of the original substance.?

This is an understatement: a 30C homeopathic preparation is a dilution of 1 in 10030, or rather 1 in 1060, which means a 1 followed by 60 zeroes, or ? let?s be absolutely clear ? a dilution of 1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000.

To phrase that in the Society of Homeopaths? terms, we should say: ?30C contains less than one part per million million million million million million million million million million of the original substance.?

At a homeopathic dilution of 100C, which they sell routinely, and which homeopaths claim is even more powerful than 30C, the treating substance is diluted by more than the total number of atoms in the universe. Homeopathy was invented before we knew what atoms were, or how many there are, or how big they are. It has not changed its belief system in light of this information.

www.badscience.net/2007/11/a-kind-of-magic/#more-578