Advice

[bobsmith]

As a man who can't have children, but has an active role in many family & friends childrens upbringing, am I being unreasonable to expect my well meaning advice to be taken as such and not to be told "You're not a parent, how could you know"

Does being a mother automatically make you a perfect parent? Should those of us without children just shut up, stop trying to help and just do everything you want us to do to make your life as easy possible?

Nice false dichotomy there, bob. Not wanting "well meaning" advice from non parents is not the same thing as saying "being a mother makes you a perfect parent".

YABU.

You didn't answer my questions either way!

Advice about children from people without children is like advice on how to paint a picture from someone who has never held a paintbrush.

You know what behavior you like to see, but you lack the experience to reproduce it yourself.

Of course, parenting is like a crash course in painting - NOBODY knows what they are doing, so critisizing advising someone who is metaphorically still blundering around in the dark looking for her easel isn't advisable. It will never be taken seriously.

Either help as he/she asks you to help, contact appropriate agencies if what you see is genuinely abusive - otherwise, you're without a brush mate, so don't tell me how to paint my picture.

It depends who you are giving advice to, whether or not it is solicited and whether you genuinely believe it will be welcome. I don't know about making a woman's life as easy as possible or doing everything she wants you to do but if the mother disagrees with your advice it's entirely up to her to do things her way (likewise a father).

I guess the simple answer is that if you don't want your advice to be rejected, don't offer it. Well-meaning as yours may be, some mothers don't appreciate unsolicited advice and when it comes from someone without children and conflicts with their own views, may take offence. I probably would myself.

Bob, your "well meaning advice" may be unwanted, not because you are not a parent, but more because maybe it's coming across as criticism or interfering...

Parents find it hard to take advice...unless it's specifically requested.

Can you give us more detail? Can we help?

ok, to bullet point for you

• no, being a mother does not make you A perfect parent, it generally makes you the most experienced person for the job of parenting that particular child.

• Yes, those of you without children should just shut up, stop trying to interfere help and just do everything YOU want to do to make a parent's life as easy as possible.

You have a choice Bob. You either offer the help conditionally on taking your advice (in which case be prepared for the help to be rejected), you offer the help unconditionally, or you don't offer the help, and as long as you accept the consequence for each of these options, you still have the moral high ground - which I suspect is what you wish to retain.

My advice is from being around other parents and seeing what does and doesn't work for them. If the reply to my advice is "thanks, but tried that" or "that won't work because of ...." that is fine, but just to be told "you don't know anything" is just impolite. Most parents appreciate me passing on tips I pick up from others, its just a minority. Some parents just need to understand that they don't automatically know eveything, just because thay have children

bored, are we bob?

Supernanny manages it!

So did I when I was a nanny......

And they will, in time, as you will understnad (if and when you have children of your own) how GODDAMN ANNOYING it is to be the constant recipient of unsolicited advice from people you consider ill qualified to give it.

Everyone has an opinion. If all you wanted to give was advice, you'd wait until you were asked for it. By venturing advice without being asked, the first unspoken words in your sentence to this parent are "YOu're clearly doing it wrong so..."

Your two final questions.

No, being a mother does not automatically make you a perfect parent?

No, those of you without children should not shut up....EVERYONE should shut up (regardless of whether they have children) and just do what is wanted to make life as easy as possible, UNLESS specifically asked for advice.

Not bored MadameDefarge. I have my friends 2 kids over for a couple of nights to give her a break and I am researching parenting skills on mumsnet

I offer behaviour management consultancy to individuals who hire me. I also work for the local authority as a family support worker. I have many tips to pass on. The fact that I am a mother of 4 children is neither here nor there. I still don't proffer advice unless asked. I think you need to take the same approach, assuming you are asking for my opinion on this, like.

I didn't answer the questions because you appear to think that rejecting your advice is the same thing as saying 'Hi, I am perfect and know everything and you should pander to my every whim'. So you're arguing in bad faith from the outset, why should I engage with that?

What works for one child may not work for another. It also depends on how the advice is offered. Something along the lines of "You should do x ..." by someone without children would irritate me, whereas "I tried y and found it worked for me...." by someone who has children comes across differently.

you would do better then to ask your friend about her children and follow her rules/advice on how to manage them and what their boundaries are than ask complete strangers how to manage your friends children.

And btw, you did not come on MN to ask for advice on how to manage these supposed children, you asked us if your unsolicited advice, as a non-parent, should be treated with respect.

Bob, I think you can give advice! Sometimes as parents, we are so entrenched in our own ways we dismiss other approaches too easily

I saw it with some of the many kids I have nannied

teachers and midwives aren't all parents..... But they can do their job just as well

Why are you researching parenting skills though? You're not going to parent these children, you're looking after them for a couple of nights.

And there is a world of difference between that and parenting day in and day out (and most of the night too in my case)

I think it's a lovely thing for you to be doing for your friend, wish someone would give me a break from sleepless DS.

Also, as someone who gives advice on parenting very frequently when asked specifically, the best approach is to ask lots of questions.

It's all about empowerment. I reckon about 30 percent of the info/suggestions is retained when someone tells you what to do as opposed to more than 50 percent when you come to the solutions yourself with the help of some pertinent questioning from an expert - such as yourself.

Gah! (my very first)..you don't know anything!...I worked with children before I became a parent and tbh I thought it wasn't that hard till I had my own..just be careful and kind with your advice..also bear in mind you may have to stfu occassionally ...sometimes situations are not what they seem..you know what stay the fuk out of it!..you may get killed!..its so random sometimes as a parent and thats what a non-patrent cannot understand..

Nice try bobsmith. Have a go at breast feeding in public next time.

Madame is it needed again????