to think that dogs in park should be muzzled?

[hawkgirl]

I live in London where quite a few teenagers have fighting dogs in the park around babies and toddlers. Its been a bit scary at times and I know i'm not the only one who worries.

It must be hard to enforce some kind of police control on who can and can't have a certain dog breed, but thinking that around areas where small children play that all dogs should have a muzzle.

I suspect that one's viewpoint is heavily influenced by where you live and how many (potentially) dangerous dogs you come across on a day to day basis.

I can see that it would be unreasonable to muzzle all dogs, but unfortunately it feels like a reasonable solution once you've been harrassed a few too many times by irresponsible dog owners and their pets.

I try to teach my small child not to be afraid of dogs, but also not to approach them. Only on Saturday, in Kensington Gdns, (so a big park), we were kicking a ball around minding our own business, and a rottie came charging up, barking, around the little one's legs, to get it (the ball). I was terrified and furious and swung him out the way. However, as the owner helpfully pointed out to me, the animal was "only playing".

Would I have been happier if the dog had been muzzled? Yes. Is it a reasonable response? Probably not.

I do think big dogs owned by incompetent handlers are a real problem in London, and the fear of what they could do is never far away when they come anywhere near your children.

OK, if we are now comparing dogs to guns then I am bowing out.

We live in an area full of 'status' dogs. I have only encountered problems with them coming after my dog. And even that has only happened twice. Considering I walk my dog in an area full of dogs at least twice a day and have done so since I was old enough to walk the dogs alone (about 10, my doby may have been big but she was perfectly trained and scared of her own shadow) I don't think that's bad going.

The experiences the children have had with dogs has only ever been good. Dd2 loves the GSDs up the road who wander (supervised but unleashed) in the street and they love her.

'Status' dogs are not the problem. The eejits who buy them only to abuse them are the problem.

Muzzling all dogs is a stupid idea. YABU.

Although I would fully support the muzzling of all Hamsters.

MORE dogs in parks?! My god. That would be dire. Come to finsbury park and try and have a nice walk around the absolutely gorgeous park with lovely playground, rowing boats, cafe, trees to climb, rose garden etc, without living in fear the whole time you are there of some of the many many staffs who look out of control, their owners are either children or kind of rough tough types who look intimidating on their own!

For all you dog lovers - what would you do about the fact that the dogs bred by people who are not as responsible as you ARE in fact dangerous....is that a problem you accept exists? If so, from your informed perspective, you may have better insight into the solution than others.

At the moment, I just absolutely hate taking my kids to the park for a stroll - I am trying to raise them to NOT have an irrational fear of dogs. But I also don't want them to be eaten! And so if we see a gang coming up with a staff that is clearly out of control, I do have to get them to hold my hand and not run off and they ask why, and I have to tell them it is because I am not sure whether the dog is nice or not - what can i do? dog love brigade - i'd love your advice! really!

And really really at choosing a staff for being lovely with children! literally. words fail me.

Dr Northener - Sorry maybe I should be more specific. Growing up with dogs in the country on public footpaths and more public used areas we always kept our dog on a leash or to heel when we saw other people with or without dogs.
Now I live in a city and I don't have a dog although I would love to ....I wonder why ?

They ARE lovely with children if trained properly.

Staffordshire Bull Terriers are uttterly irresistable and completely toddler proof. They are nick named the nanny dog and are one of the very few (I think it is 2) that the Kennel Club actually reccomend to be around children.

They are dumped in their masses at pounds or let loose onto the sreets, mainly because the nutters who buy them hoping to get a 'hard' dog are often left sorely disspointed.

Staffies are people pleasers. Nothing makes them happier than a tummy rub and good home.

I'd love one. I went to my local pound deterimned to take one home, but the only two they had in were one who was aggressive twoards cats and one who was scared of men. Neither would have been suitable. The third dog they had was a large white ball of fluff, whose 'days were up on Monday' (we visisted on a Saturday). He was safely on my sofa by Sunday evening. I'm still getting a Staffie once he is trained. I have two small children and a cat.

Yes really I really wish people would do some proper research on a breed before believing all the horror stories.

Deed not breed.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staffordshire_Bull_Terrier

Would like to draw particular attention to this part-

Temperament
Although individual differences in personality exist, common traits exist throughout the Staffords. Due to its breeding, the modern dog is known for its character of indomitable courage, high intelligence, and tenacity. This, coupled with its affection for its friends (and children in particular), its off-duty quietness and trustworthy stability, make it a foremost all-purpose dog [1]. It has been said that "No breed is more loving with its family"[3] Because of their affinity for children, Staffordshire Bull Terriers are sometimes known as ?Nanny Dogs? in England[4].

The breed is naturally muscular and may appear intimidating; however, because of their natural fondness for people[citation needed], most Staffords are temperamentally ill-suited for guard or attack-dog training.

I grew up with a close friend of the family who had a Staffie, absolutely gorgeous loving dog, one of the sweetest I have ever met.

I don't see my dogs as having more right to exercise than anyone's child has to NOT be mauled. I do feel they have a right to be able to breathe appropriately and regulate their body temperature when they are out walking.

Very few fighting dogs get taken for a nice stroll, sadly. Their owners tend to chain them up and leave them in yards/ sheds. They are commodities and as such are generally not treated to a nice day out at the local park. So the dogs you see out in the park tend to be people's pets. And the people who take the time to walk them and socialise them tend to be fairly reasonable in the main (ok, there's always a numpty) Have you noticed how the VAST majority of "dog mauls child" attacks happen in a home environment?

YANBU.

I understand why responsible dog owners are opposed to muzzling their dogs as they are the ones who are training their animals. However, how are parents supposed to know which dogs are dangerous and which are not?

I have lost count of the times where dogs have bounded over to my toddler, in some cases knocking him over. Meanwhile their owners come over saying 'he wouldn't hurt a fly' etc (if they can be arsed that is). How am I supposed to know that? I don't know their dog.

The fact is that parents can't afford to take a chance, especially where there are known to be dangerous dogs around as the OP suggests is her situation.

I for one am not willing to take the chance with my child or trust the word of a perfect stranger who obviously can't control their animal.

My dd2 is currently walking our dog (mixed breed, looks like a kangaroo crossed with a teddy) with her friend and 2 staffies. They are softies. (Unlike Jack Russells round here who are all unpredictable)

Mishy dogs bounding over to people especially children
Is exactly why IMO it's so important to have a good recall and a reliable down stay. As a dog owner if I see my dog running to say hello to someone, she is put in down stay before she reaches them. I can then go up to her, pop her lead on and if the child or adult wants to pat her they can. It just shows then my dog is under control.

It's not hard to teach a dog to do this and it would save a lot of issues if owners did this.

YABU. WHy should I stress my soft dog who's done nothing wrong to anyone? Guilty until proved innocent, eh...?

Thing is responsible owners tend to do these things anyway. It doesn't solve irrisponsable owners.. I do think owning a dog should be more difficult to do. It would be in the best interest of people and the dogs.

I totally agree ArsenicCupCake and there are many dog owners who do train their animals properly. I don't dislike dogs, I grew up with them and they were always properly trained by my Dad. He still keeps dogs and although they are trained he is extra careful when children are around.

As a parent, I have seconds to try to assess whether a dog is a potential threat or not. Body language is of course an indicator and the breed of the dog does come into it (unfortunately some dogs are seen to be more dangerous than others), as does the attitude of the owner.

It's a very hard call to make and no, I don't think it's fair for innocent animals to have to be uncomfortable in a muzzle if they haven't done anything wrong.

BUT, I have to make a judgement in some circumstances and when I do, it's always going to be a cautious one as I have a duty to protect my child.

Yeah YABU.
My gorgeous cavalier wouldn't hurt a fly - and no, people wouldn't know her if they bounded up to them - but she wouldn't do it anyway. She lies on her back if a bichon or shih tzu runs up to her. (As I write she is looking up at me with her beautiful big eyes, as though to confirm what I already knew haha).

I also don't think that you can write a list of breeds to muzzle, as everyone has said, its the owner not the breed. (Also, someone suggested about pit bulls - I thought they were banned under the dangerous dogs act).

Also, how can you stop a dog running on a field (obviously not a playground, although my dog was running around chasing my nephew and DP on the roundabout in an amusing fashion). The park around here is plenty big enough for all dog owners to have their dogs off their leads with no problems at all.

I agree with most people on here, in that its the owners that need muzzling, and if anyone is particularly concerned about fighting / status dogs, a phone to the RSPCA is in order?

YABU - take your pfb to a cotton candy playground of fluff in a realm of unreality.

By rocknstroll Thu 08-Apr-10 16:00:51
And really really shock at choosing a staff for being lovely with children! literally. words fail me.

Would you take a minute to read this,I think you might be surprised.

DrNortherner Thu 08-Apr-10 15:01:36
OK, if we are now comparing dogs to guns then I am bowing out.>>

If she comes back someone explain to her what an analogy is.

Skilhorse you're right. People expect too much these days. Imagine not wanting your child's face hanging off! How pfb can you get!

Maybe take your DC's to the park but make sure they wear a helmet, knee pads, elbow pads and a fireproof body suit just in case any nasty doggies bound up to them or around them.

Actually, following on from the trampoline thread, keep them in the same clothes they were wearing to play, supervised of course, in the garden.

IS THAT CHILD DANGEROUS? If so, MUZZLE IT.

Honestly...

yes dogs should be muzzled in public places

as even the dopiest dog-lover has to concede, we can't possibly KNOW which dogs pose a danger to children and which don't

so the only sensible thing to do is to muzzle them all

Quite simply, fewer deaths and maimings would occur - that's good enough for me

dog owners who blame children/parents for "provoking" dogs - shame on you for a weak and stupid argument. Children will be children, and they have every right to be so without fear of being bitten by an unrestrained animal

I think the crux of this issue is that some of us believe, at root, that children are more important than dogs. And others actually don't believe that they are.