so sad for the pit bulls.

[darkandstormy]

of course I am sad for those attacked by dangerous dogs.However also breaks my heart to see these abused dogs, themselves victims of the thugs and street scum.Wish someone would come up with a solution someway somehow to resolve this. I know I am as an animal lover not unreasonable feeling like this, not so sure the dog insurance scheme would change things as the scumbags just won't pay, us responsible people will.

Where I live it is a nightmare. Arsehole owners (I even overheard one saying he had got his pitbull for fighting) who are very intimidating.

One staffie type dog ran at me (with baby in buggy and a toddler) for a distance of 200m. He was snarling and trying to get in the buggy. Ds1 ran away. I was screaming. After 2 mins of chaos and me nearly in tears his owner sauntered along with the immortal line "sorry doll".

Where i live they own these type of dogs with the sole purpose of intimidating people. And it works.

I would like to see a dog insurance ASAP. If you don't pay then the dog gets taken off you, no excuses. At the moment there is not much the police can do about anti-social dog owners.

Holy crap, Fox. I think I probably would have passed out if that happened to me through fear and adrenalin.

If you want to keep dogs, great and fine with me! Just keep them in check, and on a lead if they are prone to chasing people! That's all I think

I was terrified.

I actually really like dogs but TBH I think a small minority of dog owners shouldn't be allowed to keep a goldfish never mind a dog.

I live in a, ahem, mixed area and irresponsible dog owners is a big problem. The police, at the moment, don't have a lot of powers to deal with it.

I don't blame you Fox. For the majority of thae part it's not the dogs but the owners. And the key is knowing how your dog behaves. And that other might not be comfortable with it

AFWIW, I have family friends who have the two stupidest labs around (massive ones at that) I am utterly terrified for the first 20 mins Im there (there are sniffing me etc) but thet get pulled away if needs be. And then...meh. Im happy enough for them to try and kiss me (lol will push then away)

Dog trying to get into the pushchair thud

Pitbull type dogs ARE illegal and very rarely seen for that reason. Other breeds are commonly mistaken for "pitbull type".

Anyone familiar with the Kennel Club?

From their site:

Dangerous Dogs advice for owners

Staffordshire Bull Terrier Owner Advice

The Staffordshire Bull Terrier is not listed as part of the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 and therefore you should face no threat of having your dog seized by the police.

If you believe you have an Irish Staffordshire Bull Terrier then it is possible you have a pit bull type dog and will face the same threat of seizure and prosecution as pit bull dog owners.

Information for those wishing to object to breed specific legislation

If you wish to write to politicians about breed specific legislation then these facts may be of use.

Genetics and Behaviour

Genetics (breed) plays only a part in the temperament of an individual dog and scientific studies from around the world show that environment probably has a far greater effect. A large percentage of dog biting incidents are due to the irresponsible actions of owners, who have either not taken the time and trouble to train their dog correctly, or have indeed trained them to behave aggressively. Consequently any legislation based on genetics that ignores the influence of the dog?s keeper on its behaviour is likely to be ineffective.

Enforcement

Breed specific legislation is unworkable. In England the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 has failed to prevent a large number of dog attacks and has cost the Police millions of pounds in kennelling associated costs.

Welfare Implications

From a welfare perspective, it is concerning that dogs that have not shown any signs of aggression could end up being put to sleep or being remanded in police kennels.

Rumours about ?Lock Jaw? in Pit Bull Terrier Type Dogs

Scientific research has proven that the pit bull terrier and related breeds are physiologically no different from any other breed of dog. Dr Lehr Brisbin and colleagues at the University of Georgia have shown that there is nothing in the skeletal structure of the pit bull terrier jaw that is any different from that of any other dog in respect to locking.

Staffordshire Bull Terriers are lovely dogs: see the breed websites for their lovely quirky traits. They are a fabulous breed for co-existing with people. Dogs can be another matter. Their sometimes ferociousness with other dogs has confused Daily Mail readers into assuming that ferociousness is easily transferred to humans. Wrong. It takes a great deal of human interference to do this to a Stafford. Sadly, the fact that they have been relatively recently adopted as the latest breed of choice means that many are mistreated, and with no understanding of the breed, "owners" think they can train them to be guard dogs - laughable, were the consequences not so potentially disastrous.

Deed not breed. The mantra sticks. Sadly, anyone can own a dog and ruin it's reputation with their own, like Burberry.

Staffords are not for everyone, but they are wonderful dogs. Keeping an animal for anything but pleasure in looking after them properly is sickening, darkandstormy.

Well said MotherJack!

The problems don't only come with the hoodie types who use dogs to fight or beat them either. One idiot is playing on my mind at the moment - a mother of a 2 yo who wants rid of her dog (and has been emotionally blackmailing rescue) because she "can't cope with him pulling". Her mixed breed medium sized dog's only crime is to pull on a lead which may or may not end up in him being dog-aggresive. She intimates this is so, rescue workers who have taken the dog out have seen no sign of any potential aggression.

The woman has had loads of advice from experienced individuals in rescue and one of the rescue's volunteers drives about 30 miles there and 30 miles back as often as possible to walk the dog (this volunteer has a family and 6 dogs of her own to care for as well as doing several days a week at the rescue). When it was suggested that the woman takes her dog to training classes she responded that "he has an issue with hearing me"! Well of course he fucking well will if you don't train him!

Treat training also went by the way after 5 minutes, at the owner's own admission. So here we have a perfectly affectionate dog which is running the risk of being dog aggressive because of a lazy, uncaring owner...a grown woman, not a hoodie teenager, but an unsuitable owner nonetheless.

I agree with many posters that the problem is owners not dogs. Aggression can be encouraged in most breeds of dog but owners that want a scary dog tend to go for the obvious "look alikes" like Staffies, or ones that naturally look intimidating like dobermans, rottweilers or German shepherds.

Sometimes, temperament issues are also caused by poor breeding - a responsible breeder won't breed a dog which has an iffy temperament whereas for some I guess these poor temperaments are what they're looking for.

My favourite breed is a doberman (intelligent, easy to train, short hair) but they get such bad reps from irresponsible people who go around pretending to be concentration camp guards with the things straining at the leash.

ArticFox, I had a Doberman growing up. My dad bought me her as a puppy when I was just a toddler. She passed away laying in my lap when I was 15. That was one of the worst days in my life. She still remains to be the best family dog I have ever met. There will never be another like her. She never harmed a fly in her life. The thought of her being used to imtimidate people is laughable.

I feel sorry for PitBulls. I despise people who abuse dogs in this way. But I also despise the Dangerous Dogs Act. Banning dogs just on breed alone is never going to help anything. Breed is not the issue. The issue is at the other end of the lead. Unfortunately the people who do this have little respect for the law, so I doubt any changes made will affect them.

It will people like the old woman down the road from me who owns a wonderfull elderly Staffy bitch, that will be affected. Especially if they add more breeds to the list. Whats the betting the SBT will be at the top of that list?

I feel sorry for any abused neglected animals.
Pitbulls are illegal where I live.

Staffies are generally lovely and not for nothing known as "nanny dogs". My sister's Staffie is lovely and enjoys a cuddle (actually she's a bit heavy to sit on my lap but there you go ).
My sister would never leave her (or any other dog) alone with a young child becuase a dog is a dog is a dog. However, her dog is not a danger. The problem is the idiots who get a Staffie thinking they are "hard" dogs and then finding out that they are soft as shite - hence rescue places being full of them.

"mothers have a lot of moral input my children are taught to be kind and respect all animals.They are only very young now,but, I could hedge a bet that as teenagers they would not partake in any thing such as abuse of fighting dogs.Loving pets is such a big part of our family life."

Good point darkandstormy and I do feel sorry for them. It isn't a great existence for them, they are mistreated horrendously and no animal deserves to be treated like that. I think more should be done to close in on these owners, and the laws enforced properly.

"No more a wild animal than a yorkshire terrier IMO, do you hold your breath when you walk past them aswell"

Ferret are you serious? No I don't. Staffs were orginially bred for dog-fighting and although they have been domesticated they still retain the ability to attack ferociously. When walking down the street or in the park I can't tell whether the owner of said dog is a responsible loving person who has trained the dog to be the apparently loveable and freindly breed they now are (especially in the shitty area that I live in, where you regularly see boys with their dogs on the lead teasing and mistreating the dog)

'Staffs were orginially bred for dog-fighting and although they have been domesticated they still retain the ability to attack ferociously' Yes you are right, they were bred for fighting other dogs. The dog on dog aggression is prevalent in the breed, but in some cases can be trained out of them, in some cases it is to innate a desire and can only be managed.

But it this breeding which makes them great pets. They were bred to be fighting dogs. The nature of this sport meant that the dogs needed to be handled by people, some unknown to them whilst in an excited state. Any Stafford that showed agression towards a person was not bred from.

Staffs are people pleasers because of this breeding. They are great pets to have in a family. They are utterly toddler proof. One of only a very few breeds that the KC actuallu reccommend to be around children.

Damned, the point is like you say, Staffs were originally bred to fight other dogs. (Well if you want to go further back than that they were actually ratters...) But do you or your children look like dogs?? They were trained to be ferocious towards other dogs but to dote on their human owners, how else would the owners be able to handle the riled up dogs after fights to check for injuries etc...
The stories you hear in the news are of animals that have been mistreated by humans so are no doubt going to react badly and be a danger.
You dont train a staffy to be loving and friendly, they come like that, you can though beat the lovingness out of them.

And someone who mentioned people wanting staffs as guard dogs, they make terrible guard dogs, far too good natured. Would most likely make a burglar feel very welcome by wagging their tails and rolling over for a belly rub.

On a side note my dog went even further up in my estimation 2 weeks ago when she protected my DS from 4 dogs that were off their leads and trying to jump up on him, no doubt they were friendly but my DS didnt think so. This is when Baisey stood in front of him and growled at the dogs till they ran off tails between their legs. She is mine and DS's hero. (Till she next pees on the floor, then I'll be moaning about her again!)

So ferret, staffs have never attacked any person?

Ferret, you sound like a very responsible dog owner, and I'm sure the likelihood of your dog biting somebody is very low, but are all owners of dogs and staffs the same way inclined? Why shouldn't I breathe in when a dog comes running by or to (in some cases) that looks aggressive, am I supposed to know the history of the dog just by looking at it? And I do stand by my statement that dogs can at times attack without apparent provocation. How many times have we heard "well he's never bitten anybody before"

I have however just been told that I could be mistaking staffs from pitbulls but after seeing a picture of the two I can't really tell the difference tbh

Pitbulls are taller and very muscular. Staffies are short

Damned, Of course staffs have attacked people. But so have any other breed of dog. Im just thinking if you are going to be wary then you should be around any breed, not just staffs/rotts/alsations. Of course you should be wary when any dog is off the lead and running towards you I just hate the bad press and the prejudice that Staffs and their owners have to deal with.

By far the most vicious breed ive come across is those little chiwawa dogs, We owned an apartment in Malta whilst I was growing up and those dogs were so common over there, but such nasty little blighters!

Seriously junglist? how can you tell that when they're coming at you? Are there any obvious like facial differences that make it easier to distinguish between them?

Ferret, i didn't just refer to staffs, there are a few that frighten me as soon as i see them, and I'm sure their owners would say similar things. They just happen to be one of the of the breeds that do frighten me and maybe that is because of the bad press. I'm not a fan of dogs particularly but tbh i never gave much thought to a chiwawa, thought they were cute lol. In honesty the ability of a dog to destroy is what gets me. I've been told that there are some breeds that bite on and just do not let go, some that go for the face and neck particularly with crazy savagery. Is that just the press as well? Because i do try, especially when walking with the kids, when i see a dog, I literally just want to leg it as fast as I can but i don't want to pass on unnecessary phobias to the dc's.

No extreme facial differences. Pit bulls have bigger heads. I wish I knew how to put pictures on here to show you

this is a pit bull

Staffordshire bull terrier

I understand you being frightened damned. When dogs come running upto me off lead, I get frightened too, you just never know. And yes those big dogs can do more damage, but just because they can doesnt make them more likely.
Thinking about it I also understand now the wanting to run away. I get like that when taking the dog for a walk and the swans are up on the bank blocking the pathway. I cant walk past them, they terrify me.

I hope you like the pictures. The one of the pit bull looks rather overly butch camptastic in his studded armour!

BTW I chose a pic of a staff that looks most like mine, because she's very cute lol but you can get staffs that look not so dopey.

this is also a pitbull

Awww that little kitten reminds me of the annoying furry thing from Madagascar!

The Pitbull is a banned breed in the UK and has been for many years. If the law had been upheld there would only be a few very old dogs of this breed now in existence. So I doubt very much that the idiots breeding banned dogs will be affected by some daft insurance law.

Most responsible owners already have their dogs chipped and insured. The only way to stop hysterics over dog attacks is by education.
Dogs owners should have to attend training classes and the non dog owning public should learn how to behave around dogs (eg, teaching children not to approach strange dogs without asking)

I own a very large dog and would never allow her to run up to a stranger as I'm well aware that not everyone likes dogs. But I'm always amazed when people let their children hug her tightly or stick their faces in hers!

As usual, news reports don't help. Dogs aren't dangerous creatures, but bloody stupid people are!

Well said Mud. It's no coincidence that as soon as Pitbulls have their reputation tarnished to the extent we ban them (although see below for Kennel Club's views on this), Staffords then get dragged through the mud. It's almost always ignorant owners.

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