To tell DD(9) to ignore people who are horrible to her?

[Fruitysunshine]

As adults if we receive behaviour towards us that we find offensive we would usually question it and confront someone if it continued over a prolonged period of time.

If we ignore nasty behaviour we are told we are too soft or ignoring the problem or "in denial" as it usually relates to a personal relationship.

At what point do we teach our children to stand up for themselves and deal with objectionable behaviour?

The reason I ask is that there is a group of about 3/4 girls in DD's class. They all know each other very well and have formed bonds over the years as they have been in the same class for a long time. DD only joined this school last September so it is accepted that it will take longer for her to be accepted by an already tight knitted circle.

Today I dropped DD off at school and she walked up to these girls (I was watching from a distance) and they all run away from her leaving her standing there, looking and I daresay feeling really uncomfortable. I have seen this happen quite a few times and each time DD tells me I tell her to "ignore it" and to find other people to be friends with. She also complains that they stand and laugh at her when she does find someone to play with and she says it makes her feel stupid as if she is doing something wrong when she feels she is not.

Is it always better to tell our children to "ignore it"? Am I being unreasonable by telling DD to "ignore it" as if it will magically make her feelings less bruised and make her feel more valued in her class? Am I not validating her feelings by telling her to ignore it?

Sometimes as a mum I really want to unleash the tigress within to protect my children but obviously we have moved on from jungle behaviour in recent centuries!

Am I being unreasonable telling DD to ignore it and do you have the same approach but feel the same as me inside or is it just me being too precious??

I have an 18yr old and have been through this with him but boys seem to be different to girls. I was also bullied at school being put in hospital twice by the same person in my primary school over a 4 year period so I sometimes think I am clouding my judgement by my own experience.

Opinions please!

I tell my children - if someone is being mean to you, don't play with them, don't approach them. Play with someone else.

If they continue to pursue you to be mean when you are playing with someone else, then you inform the teacher.

I don't think things do change when we are adults; some people do not want to be our friends, but if they are mean to us beyond getting rid of us, it is bullying and we make a complaint.

I have no advice to give but will be interested to see what others suggest as I have had a similar problem recently with my older dd. I am not sure how to guide her as I was not very skilled at dealing with these situations as a child/teenager

Sadly the way the Schools system works, you probably are right in telling her not to react,

I had a conversation with my 7 year old only yesterday, she was complaining that if shes slow eating her lunch, she ends up with older girls sat at her table, & they laugh at her & are "mean" to her......I said well stand up for yourself & tell them as they are obviously not very clever to say such things, therefore thier opinion isn't important, or something like that.....to which DD replied....Mum I did, but the Dinner Supervisor heard me, & told ME off, because she runs around so much she can't see everything, & wouldn't listen to my saying they did it first

If its ongoing, & your DD is new to the School, then I would have a word with her teacher, they can probably help as they did with a Girl in DDs class who had similar problems.....they took the ring leader of the group, & asked her to sit with & help the new girl.....they are now best of friends

OK. One of the (hard) things dc, esp dd, learn in school is all the social stuff. And they learn most of that by doing, through, and with, their peers.

I long ago came to the conclusion that I was of little help to dd and ds in this respect. Other than, perhaps, being someone they can talk to about what is going on, and offering comfort, and a space where I build up confidence.

Thing is, what other strategy would you suggest she adopt? You are an adult, and socialise with other adults. Most of these other adults have been through the socialisation process, and accept a set of common norms.

Your dd and her peers, on the other hand, are in transit, and their "norms" are a. different from yours b. in transit, and fluctuating themselves.

In an ideal world, you'd sit down and, I don't know, read "The Prince" or "The Art of War", study the social bonds/power networks at play in her class, and work out a killer strategy together. But that assumes that you are superbly socially adept yourself. You may not be quite that gifted.

You can't insult the other girls - it will make your dd question her judgment; she wants to be friends with them. You can't go into school and be her friend - it would be odd.

I think, realistically, all you can do is pretty much what you're doing - talking to her; telling her that it's a limited group and they don't recognise her excellent qualities, which are ...; listening to her; building her confidence.

It's hard even to recommend suggesting she call them on their behaviour, without some knowledge of the particular groups dynamic. It could be a mistake.

The best route is trying to ease her passage with others, maybe. Are there no other groups in the class/outside school she could move towards? And is there anything you could do to enable that?

Re-reading your post, my hunch is this:

Someone in that group of 3/4 girls likes your dd v. much, and finds her interesting/would like to be friends OR the "leader" has recognised "leader"/attractive traits in your dd.

That is why there is this group bonding going on targetted on laughing at your dd. It's to make the group cohere, power-wise, around whichever one is leading the group/feeling threatened by your dd. The message is to the potential "drifters" - the ones who might become friends with your dd/welcome her into the group/maybe even accept her as a leader.

The message is "be friends with her, you'll get this"; "if you want to be in this group, you can't be friends with her" and so on.

I'm sure you know all this. And there's a bit of "hazing" the new girl, to see what she's like.

I guess she either has to go for full out war with the group leader, and "steal" the followers. (Lots of sleep overs; innovative use of clothing/hair accessories; being perpetually fascinating) or set up an alternative power basis.

See? It's crazy. I think you have to trust your dd to deal with it, but keep a close eye on the situation to make sure it doesn't turn into something nastier, that she can't handle. And be prepared to wade in at adult level if it does.

Animula, I don't recall any of that from school. It sounds more like the plot of some American high school film. I really don't think advising a child to go up against someone in some kind of hair accessory war is ethical advice - that child would then be a bully, trying to steal someone's friends off them.

MillyR - That's why I said "It's crazy". It would be crazy to do something like that. And I suspect you wouldn't like either yourself (and perhaps even your dd!) at the end of it.

It's why we, as adults, really do have to let our dc get on with as much of this sort of stuff, at their level, as possible.

And, fwiw, that, sadly, is exactly what my school experience was like. I hated primary school; secondary was a lot smoother, because I arrived there with a good few analytical skills, and a (degree of) willingness to put them into practice. But I'm not a horrible person. I could never be that instrumental. I think there are very few who would be.

I remember one of my friends, with a very "popular" dd telling me that she had watched her dd, and had realised that "being popular" was extremely hard work. She was exhausted watching her dd.

I, personally, think it's a great moment in a woman's life when she realises that she really doesn't much care about "being popular".

I'm with Milly on this one, but agree it's a real toughie. Kids, especially little girls can be so mean to one another.
My DD (8) is part of a group of four girls and there's always one falling out with another. I only get to hear my DD's side of the story so I can't really comment, and, on principle, would never intervene as that would probably do the most damage to her self-esteem of all.
What I do is to urge her to tell her friends that her feelings are hurt by their actions. This forces them into two choices- they either ignore her, in which case she knows she's better off without them, or they apologise and make an effort not to excude her again.
I've also assured her that I'm aware that speaking up is scarey and takes a lot of guts, however the alternative of being lonely and seething is far worse in the long term.
I really do feel for children in this position, I've been there myself. But it's one of life's lessons, albeit a tough one, and those that take to heart what they've learnt will come out stronger and better adults for it, I'm sure.

OP I think it is important for you to build up your dd's self-esteem, so that she doesn't feel as though she needs to be friends with these bullies. I think ignoring it is the best advice, but the only way a 9 year old (even an adult) can is by having so much confidence that they don't need anyone else.

fwiw I think having a quiet word with the teacher, without your dd knowing would be a good idea. Just so that if things are happening in the playground when you're not around the teachers are aware of it. they might spot something and be able to help.

Being the new girl is always tough I expect.

DD is a very friendly, chatty girl and loves being with her family and outside friends. She attends Brownies which she loves and ice-skating classes. Her outside group leaders say they have no issues at all with her behaviour and she is a very happy go-lucky member of the group who gets on with everyone.

She was put on the "top" table after a couple of weeks at this new school and there was 4 boys and one girl on that table. Now there are two girls as DD has joined it and this other girl on the table is the girl who is the constant in this "ignoring" group to the point that she even refused to come to dd's birthday party when everyone else did -and thoroughly enjoyed themselves. I say refused but her mum rang me and said they were busy - although DD said the girl was teasing her at school about her having a rubbish birthday party that nobody would like.

Bloody hell - listen to me - I am beginning to sound like a kid from the playground! This is nuts!

Then I would advise you brush it off. If she has other friends, unless she is actually being bullied, get her to see that it isn't a big deal. These girls are petty and jealous, she shouldn't even give them the time of day.

damnedchilblains - that is the general approach I am taking just now - I never had the hang of this when I was at school and wonder if advising my DD to take the same approach I did will actually benefit her. It got me plenty of hidings!

awww fruity that's sad. don't know what to suggest then really. I'm hoping i don't have to deal with this but will be packing my ds off to martial arts when he is 5 to see if i can instil a sense of security and confidence within himself.

As I said though, if it does becomes physical, or serious verbal bullying (if your dd is crying, scared or clearly not herself) then it becomes something you need to bring to the schools attention.

Thanks for your thoughts - I intend on keeping with the "stiff upper lip" approach as I know that DD needs certain skills to get her through life - I just don't want to miss anything en route , IYSWIM.

Have you asked your dd what she would like to do?

Well, no I have not. I have just offered my thoughts on how she should handle it....perhaps I should.

Mmm if people are laughing at her I'd encourage her to get verbal TBH. IMO she needs to learn to defend herself against anyone.
I've been called into school over telling my youngest to hit a bigger boy back next time. My son did and got the better of the bully aswell, nobody bothers him now.