To claim more money from the state instead of earning it myself?

[muggglewump]

I knew that would make you look

OK, so I'm a cleaner in a Care Home, my normal hours are 16, over 3 days in school hours. I do lots of overtime, whatever is offered except for weekends which I won't work due to childcare costs (I had a thread about this a few months back) This month I'll do around 27 extra hours, and usually at least 10 a month.

I've been offered Monday and Friday as permanent, I currently do Tue-Thurs, still school hours.
Now I've checked on entitled to, and I won't be financially better off, in fact a little worse as I'll have a bigger childcare bill to pay, plus I'll lose the overtime as I'll already be working Monday and Friday, and these are the days I do as extra, plus early starts/late finishes.

It makes no sense to do this, there's no promotion available, except to Housekeeper and she isn't leaving, plus I couldn't do her hours, and as I am already great at what I do and valued in my job (confirmed by my direct boss and management in my appraisal last week), I don't really need to do extra days permanently to prove myself.

I have one DD, age 8 and no babysitter so I value the two days a week I have on my own whilst she's at school, and it allows me to get the boring stuff done so weekends are free.

The one niggle I have is a moral one, should I earn the extra myself and claim less, or is it OK to carry on as I am?

sorry my post did not read well but not for a mo was I suggesting that you were muggles I just hoped that you had been given the right advice as HMRC can be mean as hell. And I do wish you well honest the wholw system can be designed just to confuddle us good luck xxx

When you say 'claiming' do you mean state benefits like income support etc.. if so im confused why you need to be on them when your child is in school anyway, sounds like they are more of your lifestyle choice than the safety net they are intended to be i.e comments like 'if I work so many hours I lose out'

mugglewump, I think some of the comments on here have been a tiny bit unhelpful. It sounds as if you just happen to be one of those people for whom it makes no sense to work longer as you will lose tax credits/overtime rate. I totally understand why you feel a bit bad about not taking the extra days but I don't think you should.

I don't know much about Family Tax Credits but arent' they a payment for those not earning loads devised to make it more sensible to work than not? You are working. You are contributing.

FWIW, I work full time, am single parent, receive no benefit except Child Benefit (which everyone gets). I am lucky enough to have a good job (which I hate at the moment) that pays well. I'd rather my taxes went to support a thoughtful, responsible person like you than paying for MPs' expenses/the Olympics/etc.

"I hate that I have been offered more work but I will have less money doing it. "
Perverse incentiove. Not your fault or your problem. If they want people to work more then it has to be worthwhile!

I agree with Belle, but I do worry about whether the fact that this offer has been made isn't an indication that your employer is having a review of the way the additional hours are covered. If you don't take the offer up, as others have said above, isn't there a risk that they'll find another solution that doesn't involve you - and you'll end up worse off?

Sympathies, muggle. You are right: it is morally wrong but it is the Government's morals that are wrong, not yours. It seems crazy that they encourage the mothers of little ones to go back to work but then trip them up with the benefits system.
Tell your boss that you would like the extra hours but it is not financially beneficial to you right now, and if circumstances change then your answer would change.

fembear, yes you are right, it is morally wrong, but to muggle, im NOT having a personal go at you. I understand that you are in a difficult position.
The way i see it it, if you CAN work, you should. regardless of whether it fits in. I shouldnt e a lifestyle choice.
Too many peope living off the state right now, who CHOOSE not to work and to be honest have more disposable income than most that do work.

I was brought up in a european country, where the system is - if you dont work, you dont have any money. Simple as that.
No, thats not the best way either, but this country makes it too easy to give ourselves the option of whether we want to work or not. And that is wrong.

What would you say, if i said i was gonna pack in my full time job today, then go and claim my rent, council tax, and all the other beneifts i would be 'entilted' to and sit at home all day?

'What would you say, if i said i was gonna pack in my full time job today, then go and claim my rent, council tax, and all the other beneifts i would be 'entilted' to and sit at home all day? '

I'd say if you could manage it, and you think living on benefits is so luxurious, go for it.

you work part-time, you are bringing in an inome, ating as a role model, and puting some work history in place. you are on your own, so all the extra ativities to do with school, kids social life ect down to you.

ithink you should stay as you are and manage your parenting and work life balance well. beuase if you go full time and youdon't manage to do this then it will all go tits up anyway.

i then think that in a year or two with your work history in place that you can start to apply for other jobs that are perhaps better paid full time.

i personally think this is a short term problem with an obvious long term solution which soiety won't be paying for.

so stay as it is

Redredwine, no not income support, Working Tax Credits. The moral issue is because if I work more, I'll get less Tax Credits and more wages, but the end figure will be slightly less doing five days than my current three. Not a vast amount less but still less.

I can't really afford to lose any money, and yes, I suppose I do like the lifestyle of having two days a week at home if I want.
Being on my own with no help, I do have to do everything, and this enables me to, and to have plenty of time with DD. This will change as she gets older, I hope to be working full time by the end of her first year in Secondary School so 2014.

hoppershopper If you think benefits are plenty to live on, and you'll have a great disposable income then live on them. You'll soon want a job, trust me!

Amandacooper I have a 16 hour contract, so my normal hours are safe. The guy who I'd have been replacing is hopefully still going to work weekends, which I won't anyway, it's just his Mon and Fri which need covering, and then I'll work on my own on a Thursday, meaning we don't need anyone else. If I don't do it, there'll be a three day a week job going, but it won't affect me at all. The overtime will still be there when new person is on leave.

I was poking around again earlier on entitled to, and it seems there is no difference financially between working 16 hours and 29, you need to go over 30 for it to make a difference. It seems like madness but is the way it is.
It would be worth it if there was a promotion to work towards, or a pay rise, but there isn't.
I know when I leave eventually, I'll get a fabulous reference so two extra days has nothing to offer me at all.

I have made my decision to stick as I am for now.

Oh and there is a job with more hours available in November, if I feel differently then.

Thanks for all the replies, and helping me to work it through.

I agree with some others who have pointed out that the benefits system will change under the next government, and you may want to take the extra hours now while still available.

How will the benefits system change? Muggle is doing nothing wrong here - she is working and contributing. Because her wage is low she (like me) gets some tax credit and working tax credit to bump it up.

I am in a similar position in that I work three days and have two days off. This enables me to care for DS, keep up with housework and just generally ensure life runs smoothly. Having a son with some developmental problems is an issue too as I want to be arond to go into school if needed.

Financially it's crap but financially it would be equally crap if I upped my hours to do the school hours of the two days I crrently have off. The system is at fault here - not the likes of Muggle who work.

Yes Lymond, but what will it change to?
Will I then have to work 5 days to have the same amount of money as I do now, or will working two days extra actually benefit me, as it doesn't currently.

I will have a chance to up my hours again in November as one of the women I work with is retiring.

If things stay as they are re money, I won't bother I don't think, if I'll be better off, I will.

The other thing about Monday and Friday is that I will lose all of the bank holidays off, last half term was thu-mon. I took the thurs off and had all of half term at home, we also have September weekend here in Scotland, again, I get that off without having to take leave. Lots of inset days are on Mon/Fri. I'm not due to work Christmas day until 2012 either.

JollyPirateIt sounds like you are in a similar situation, where unless you go over 30 hours, you are no better off. 30 hours isn't an option without doing 6 days as it's only a 5 hour a day job (I do one hour extra to make the 16 I need for TCs, my boss gave me that as she liked me better than the other applicants!)

We don't even know when the next election's going to be.

I wouldn't screw up my today for a tomorrow that might never happen, IYKWIM.

What's important is the here and now and what works for you now in the here and now.

The future is just that.

Yes Expat you're right. I don't know anyone who wants my job, but I know loads of women who would kill to have a part time job in school hours, and as I have one I should make the most of it while I can.

what a dilemma. I think if it was me, I'd just go for the more money / less work approach! you never get the time back with your children and you can always work your arse off when she is a horrible teen or twenty something and just stomps around the house all the time being revolting!

I work full time, 5 days, and would love to have 2 days a week off to myself, or even 1, while my mob are in school, but we can't really afford it as have huge mortgage to pay, but if we could afford it, I would totally do it. Life is too short to slave away.

This is why I pay tax and am happy to do so - so that people on low incomes can afford to spend time with their kids, raising them properly and giving them a loving start in life, not having to work all the hours god sends in a minimum wage job for fear of Daily Mail style judgmentalism.

your daughter will thank you for it!

Just to clarify, I don't think you're doing anything wrong by not taking up the extra 2 days work.

However, if I were dependent on tax credits for part of my income, I think I would be worried about the sustainability of continuing to get them, as both main parties are talking about "reforming the system" to correct an imbalance that leaves people claiming them and working part time better off than those working full time. (As you're discovering!)

Since there will be another opportunity for you to increase your hours in November though, it sounds like this doesn't actually need to be a consideration for you.