To be angry with this doctor

[annielouisa]

I am newbie so I hope its ok to post. I am really upset by a doctor at our out of hours emergency drop in clinic. My DD took my granddaughter to the clinic with a cough and vey high temp on Sunday. They barely examined her and said its a virus just give her calpol.

DD nursed her gave her calpol and tried to keep her fluids up. Yesterday the little one was no better and her breathing erratic so she took her to the GP who went ballistic and contacted the childrens ward and my DGD was admitted. She was tachichardic, Oxygen levels were below 80%, had a severe chest infection and a very high temp.

Today she is on oxygen has been diagnosed with atypical pneumonia and looks dreadful. She is a terrified little girl who is getting the treatment that should have started Sunday. She is only just 5 and surrounded by beeping machines. I was almost sick when my DD told me she was in HDU she usually such a bundle of fun.

I had a similar situation when my son was 18 months old, he came in from the garden screaming one afternoon, of course he couldn't tell me what was wrong. Gave him Calpol, didn't work. Phoned DH, said to ring doctor, got an emergency dr.app. 3.20pm. My GP said nothing was wrong, keeping giving Calpol. He seem to settle at DRS! Got him home, same again, screaming. DH came home early from work, rang out of hours Dr. Got another appointment, went to primary health care centre and got a very disinterested DR who told us if we were concerned to take him to the hospital, cos he couldn't find anything wrong. So...We took him to our citys childrens hospital in a rush.
The moment we entered the waiting room, they could see what distress my son was in, and rushed him straight through to the DR,past triage and all the full waiting area. Xray and consultation found he had a chest infection and administered anti-biotics straight away. We couldn't believe it, 3rd time lucky! It's a mothers instinct, we know when somethings not right. He was fine the next day!

bernadetteoflourdes.
Pharmacology is not "off the syllabus". It is very much on.
nor is morbid anatomy, although fewer students dissect a cadaver these days.
In "the old days" up to 1 in 2 people taken to theatre with suspected appendicitis had a normal appendix (which was always removed lest the classical scar cause latter confusion). Current improved imaging techniques have helped a great deal, although the decision to take to theatre as an emergency remains a matter of clinical judgement (and therefore is not 100% accurate). I am not a surgeon.
Out of hours cover has deteriorated since the government thought it would be a good idea (cheaper) to allow GPs to opt out of providing it. Unsurprisingly almost all GPs abandoned a poorly paid, high-responsibility part of their jobs that involved travelling to strangers' houses alone at night. It has cost a fortune to provide an alternative.

The phrase that stands out for me in your OP is "barely examined"

I'm not a doctor, I am a vet. We are very busy and run 10 minute appointments like most GPs, often with a good few emergencies thrown in. Every animal that comes into my consulting room has a FULL clinical history taken and a top-to-toe examination- even if a dog comes in with a stomach complaint I will listen to its chest and start at the head and work back. What amazes me is that, when I take my dc to many doctors (especially OOH clinics) they don't take a history and they rarely exam the child at all. Now, as I have a bit of medical knowledge I have usually mentally done these bits myself and know if my child has a temperature/ a tender abdomen/ been eating/ vomiting. But they don't, and they rarely check or ask.

Yes things CAN be missed, even with a proper examination. But if you don't DO a proper examination and you miss things, IMO you don't have a leg to stand on (although they always seem to get away with it )

Mybabywakesupsinging as a GP M FIl travelled to stranger's houses at night if they were drunk or violent he refused, one guy asked for a consultation in a phone box.He accepted Night Duty and home visits as par for the course. GPs are not poorly paid,(and were not even before the new contracts) ref Pharmacology My mum's young GP said he did not know much about it and they only grazed over it at medical school so that is where I got that info from.My mum is a retired ward sister
and she seemed to know more about her medication than he did, he did not even have a copy of Mimms (used to be th GP's bible)in his office.Ref imaging and scans these are only offered as a last resort as they are expensive and if you are admitted on a Friday night you will have to wait until the following week for a decision. You can moan and scream in agony all you like but c'est la vie so inthe meantime your appendix ruptures. so the scan is too late. Illnesses dont set their clocks on a nice 9to5 basis. And yes animals are treated way better as they are private patients.Alsowhat is wrong with learning morbid anatomy it is bloody vital I would say, to set you onthe path of being a Doctor, is it too un pc these days? Another thing, the bed rounds with senior Consultants and groups of students is more rare. The twice daily bed round where the Consultant brow beats the poor student into giving a spot diagnosis there is too much theory and class room work and not enough practice.Medics are thrown in at the deep end so are not unnaturally reticent and prefer to wait until Monday for the consultant to rubber stamp a course of action. Medical Students now receive better Clinical training in other countries like India for example. The whole system needs looking at again but no one will have the courage to do it, more money than ever befoe has been thrown at the NHS and it is worse than ever. Iam scared of getting ill and going to hospital, really bloody scared. My son's life was saved by the intervention of a surgeon we had to see privately (thank god for medical insurance) as was my dn's life.

Jooly I will gladly come to the vet for a check up as I would be mre reassured going to you than my own GP. Iam jealous of my bloody cat and hamster asI am always impressed with the attention to detail their physical entails. So what does this say about us as a nation? Yes, animals are better treated medically than humans it really has come down tothis. I would love to send this thread to Andy "Bollocks" Burnham and show that not one positive thing has been said by the posters re medical diagnosis, these are heart rending tales each one of them and I am sick of the Yes But excuses e get fromthe Medical profession the biggest critic is my FIL and that says something when Doctors no longer feel a proud professional bond.Babysinging you offer me no grains of comfort or hope in tis service Iam afraid.

Thank you, bernadette . I just don't understand why it is so different- neither animals nor babies can speak, so surely the same care should be taken with both? And yes, I know doctors are busy, but so are we! It is doable. I think it is perfectly reasonable to expect a full history and a full clinical examination at any appointment.

Exactly jooly something has gone very wrong somewhere. Do you think that vet training has stayed the same over the years with no tampering with the style of teaching as has been the case in Medicine? Also on a tangent do vets in rural areas still make night calls like Messrs Farnon and Herriot et al?

Hello everyone sorry I have been away for so long all evening at the hospital. To make things clear we are not angry with our GP Surgery they are great. The doctor was upset as there have a lot of problems with our out of hours service not staffed by local GPS.She was not angry with my DD who she has known for many years but at this ongoing situation with our poor out of hours service.

The barely examined consisted of only seconds listening to her chest, no asking for a history, no temperature, no looking in her mouth and according to DD no proper eye contact and alot of fiddling with her very long hair. All I really care about now is DGD recovering.

annielouisa I am sure she will be just fine but how gut wrenching for you all. We have got fired up on this especially me as the out of hours docs are offering an appalling nin;service IMHO Jooly the vet makes a really interesting point above re the physical exam of babies and animals. Please come back and let us all know about you DGS and good luck you must be knackered you poor thing. xxx

Sorry Annie your DGD waswhat I meant to say

Hi guys my DGD is still on the oxygen but they have lowered the amount. She becoming grumpy which is difficult for my DD in the middle of the night but means she is well enough to be stroppy. She was cross when she realised the consultant said she had to stay in. My DD said she (my DGD) did her legendry death stare with accompanying eyebrows.

Its crowded down there at the moment as my ex sil is down there with my DD and my DS and his fiancee. There is another shift of people heading down when they've finished work.

I let the others use visiting times as parents and grandparents can visit whenever they want.

Aaah Annie stroppy is very good ,and recovery (fingers crossed) should be good. Visiting in Hspital is emotionally draining but it is fantastic you are all rallying round her. Iwill keep an eye on this thread coz I am really interested in how it goes

Chest infections in babies and young children can come on very very quickly.

I have in the past (on more than one occasioina) , with DS1 who was extremely prone to them, been to Drs (emergency appointment) one day, been seen by a doctor, chest listened to and send home saying probably just a virus chest fine just keep an eye on him and bring him back if worried, taken back the next day, same doctor, listened again very bad chest infection.

Hope our granddaughter is geting better.

Sorry I have been away so long but everything is crazy here. My DGD went home yesterday and is mostly sleeping although she was upset she wasn't allowed back to school! Last night DGD4 was rushed into the same ward via A&E with a severe upper respitory infection and a temp of 40.5. My DD2 has phoned to say they are querying bronchill pneumonia. My whole family is running on empty now I even feel too tired to cry.

DGD4 is nearly 9 months and it was awful to see her looking so poorly last night. DGD3 has the same infection but seems to be on the mend she is currently in my kitchen eating weetabix.

I know she is in the best place but my heart breaks to see my precious girls so poorly

My son had something similar when he was 11 months. He'd had a cold and suddenly went downhill. Turned out he had pneumonia.

This happened in a matter of hours. So the doctor mightn't have seen what the GP saw afterwards.

Hello all Just bumping this thread to let everyone who sent get well wishes know both my DGDs are now well. I am afraid I have been away along time as I got the virus and spent all my A/L from work feeling very sorry for myself. It was truly scary seeing my 2 DGDs looking so poorly I am just so happy they are getting back yo full fitness

Hey Annielouisa great to see you are all recovering. You have been through the wars you poor things!

Glad to hear your DGD is ok

No time to read entire thread but we had a similar thing happen at OOH dcotor too.

DD1 was 19 months, history of chest infections, wheezing, needing nebuliser.

Got very bad during the night. Took her to OOH doctor who told us she just had a cold. We explained history and said we both felt she was wheezy. He said she wasn't.

We took her home. Had to have her taken by ambulance to hospital an hour later on oxygen.

Her oxygen was only 83% when ambulance arrived.

Poor dd was stuggling for breath.

She is nearly 4 now and I regret not having complained at the time.

Hope your DGD is doing well.