to be shocked that I still have to pay for nursery food and drink during my ds 'free' 12.5 hrs at nursery?

[darentinas]

DD is now entitled to the 12.5hrs 'free' childcare at nursery for 3 year olds. However, in her first week I have been presented with an invoice charging me for drinks, snacks and tea. Apparently because she goes from 2-5 for 4 days a week she has to have a light meal in the afternoon.

AIBU to think that surely the government should pay for this? What is the point of offering 'free' places only for parents to then have to find the money to pay for lots of extras? I just don't know how I'm going to afford the extra cash. I did ask if dd could attend the morning session but was told I would still have to pay for drinks, snacks and a lunch. There is no way round it, she cannot go for 'free'.

I was chatting to 2 other women who have said they are not going to be able to send their children to the nursery for their 12.5 hrs either because of these extra costs. It seems like this scheme isn't actually helping the people it is aimed at, people on low incomes who may not ordinarily be able to send their children to nursery so that chldren can enjoy socialising with others, preparing them for school etc.

I naively assumed that dd would go for her 12.5 hrs and I wouldn't have to pay anything. The Government bangs on about providing free childcare for 3 to 5 year olds but it isn't actually free is it? It seems like one big conspiracy to me.

Also, why are they giving her drinks, snacks and tea in three hours?

What are they really asking you to pay for?

Nurseries around here give water in the day/a carton of milk with tea for drinks.

The light tea is often some fruit & sandwiches or similar, ie something that would nowhere near cost £2.50/day!

Not sure if there's some misunderstanding re: the 'free 12.5hrs' here?

As I understand, people are entitled to free 12.5hrs per week in a state nursery OR the equivalent funding towards private nursery provision (in an Ofsted/Estyn approved setting). If the private nursery charges more than the state funding for that many hours provision, they're well within their rights to charge more - nothing to do with the government.

E.g. We don't live very close to any of the state nurseries in our LEA, so our DD goes to a private nursery. They charge (I think) around £6 per hour. They recieve (I think) £12.50 funding from the LEA, so charge us the £2.50 difference.

The 2.5 hours entitlement is meant for to give every child the chance of pre-school education - its not meant as childcare. A private nusery can charge top-ups or for meals etc - they run for profit otherwise they would not exist.

OP, YABU - if you dont want to pay then switch nursery but dont expect somebody else to pay for your childs food.

I do think that is excessive, but I am guessing it is a standard amount for all children? I.e those attending that session. We charge parents for lunch club (covers staff wages), and children bring their own lunch box. BUT all snacks and craft etc are provided by the setting. It does vary greatly, and the pitiful funding given to settings has meant reduced hrs (spare staff) and increased fees all round.

so does that mean £12.50 per hour from the lea or per session? a bit confused!

Our school nursery is £1370 per term, half days, including lunch. The Ofsted grant brings that down to £855 per term, or approx. £77 per week.

I wouldn't really grumble at £10 per week for a private nursery.

I think the problem is their timing - most private nurseries offering nursery education grant sessions will run them so that they don't coincide with mealtimes. teatime at day nursery is usually 4- 4.30. so most private day nurseries will run their sessions from 1-4. or even earlier.

school nurseries/preschools might ask for a contribution for snacks or for you to send something in. most will also charge you for an hour's childcare and a packed lunch if you want to roll two funded sessions together.

OP you will just have to look at other nursery options.

I don´t get "she has to have a light meal in the afternoon".

Couldn´t that part at least be opted out of?-it´s only three hours.

My ds times changed from 12.5 to 15hrs of free nursery and he gets free snacks and lunch. But prior to that it was 3 pounds a day but He got extra hour at nursery and this is a private nursery.

The funding received does vary between authorities but is in the region of £3.30 an hour.

The amount private nurseries receive is usually not enough to cover their costs. Also funding is only made for 38 weeks a year. Many private nurseries will not only be losing money each hour but losing the opportunity to sell the place to a full time child.

Nurseries are not just about - 'making a profit', they are peoples' usually small businesses and livleihoods. A nursery operating 50 odd weeks a year costs more to run than a pre-school play group but is providing a necessary provision for working mothers.

I imagine your nurseries food does not actually cost £10. They are just trying to recoup some of their costs within the rules of the grant provided. Their only alternative is to not provide the grant at all, which is hardly fair on anyone who's used a nursery since their dc were 12 months old.

my understanding was that private nurseries weren't allowed to charge a supplement for the difference between the private hourly rate they would charge and the pre-school funding they receive for a child?

The 2.5hrs per day should be FREE.

They are allowed to charge for wrap-around care in addition to this 2.5hrs.

With regard to a charge for food, I have no idea on whether this is legal.
The pre-school funding shouldn't cover food - but should you HAVE to take up the food option?

Personally I would talk to OFSTED about whether this is within the rules.

WestCountryDad nurseries are not allowed to charge a 'top up' as such.

For example my setting charges £9.75 for a 2.5 hour session for non funded children. We get £7.50 for the funded children but we cannot charge parents of the funded children the £2.25 difference. It has to be free at the point of delivery. If we tried to charge a top up our local authority would come down on us like a ton of bricks and could take away our contract to offer the free entitlement.

We can however charge for snacks/joining fee/admin fee etc.

This may change when the 15 hour entitlement comes in in September (for settings not already in the pilot areas)as there is talk of not being able to charge for anything.

My ds goes from 9:15 to 12:15 Mon to Fri and we pay £10 a month towards snacks and cooking costs (they do cooking once a week)and thats all. His snack will be beans on toast or fruit etc and a glass of milk or water.

I imagine the shift to 3 full hours rather than 2.5 makes it difficult for private nurseries providing daycare.

they have to provide meals for the children who are there from 8 - 5.30/6, so high tea has to happen by 4.30 at latest.

i think this nursery is either being either a bit sneaky or a bit strange in running their sessions over a mealtime. £2.50 per day is probably slightly - but not massively - inflated for high tea. but if OP doesn't like this arrangement she's free to take her grant elsewhere.

maybe the nursery actually do it on purpose to put off people who only want a term-time part-time place. as another poster has said, it barely covers their costs.

I think you should challenge the nursery owner first as to why she is charging so much when you are entitled to 12.5 hours per week 'free'. Then check with your local authority which provides the funding for nursery places - ask them to confirm if nurseries are allowed to insist on additional payments.

I am involved in a pre-school and we provide fruit & snacks at no extra charge (free milk also supplied).

YABU I think, although the nursery places are funded by the government and the nursery can claim that back, food is not and if you don't pay for it it has to come out of the nursery's own pocket. It's fair enough I think.

Ours is free but is a preschool, not a nursery setting. YABU because you chose a nursery and not a pre school and that's teh way it is in nurseries, they are not geared towards 3 hours care a day.

Why dont you stop paying it and send her in some snacks, feed her before than put a snack box in saves money simple!

In our setting we are definitely not allowed to charge for snack, registration fee etc for grant funded children. The 12.5 hours a week has to be available with no extra compulsory charges on top, as the government intended. If a child stays for "school dinner" or extra sessions we are allowed to charge.

I know categoricaly that in Devon private nurseries are not allowed to force parents to pay for cooked lunches and has to allow them to bring in a packed lunch - for example, even if it means the nursery has to shut the kitchen down.

I would definitely ring the County Council help-line for clarification, don't think Ofsted would be the right one, it is those that dish out the grant funding that have the say, and I reckon this varies from county to county.

yabu - you're cross at the wrong people - its not the govts fault that you have placed your child in a private day nursery which has additional costs - sorry.

I guess it is down to the nursery, DS2 Went to a superb private nursery here for his free hours and had a full lunch & pudding for free.

The DCSF say this about charging for 'extras:

"Will parents be expected to make a financial contribution towards their childÃ?Â?s free early education place?

No. Parents cannot be required to contribute to the cost of the basic free entitlement but may be charged fees for any services which exceed the minimum entitlement.

my understanding (from when ds was at nursery) is I was entitled to 2.5 hrs of anti-pre or pre school nursery/education sessions per day. They ran 2 x 2.5hr sessions each day. They would not allow us to get the 12.5hrs over 4 days, it has to be 2.5hr sessions a day over 5 days, if I could not attend 1 day a week I lost that 2.5hrs of funding.

Children would require a snack/drink during this time and this would need to be paid for - about £1.

the goverment is not providing free childcare, it is providing free nursery/education places. if you are sending your dd in for 3 hours/4 days a week, its not strictly as the goverment wanted - especially as eating tea for say 1/2hr x 4 days = 2 hours of funded care is not imo nursery education.

Sounds to me as if the nursery is treating it as free childcare, do they run specific pre school sessions at specific times? Can you arrive to pick dd up as soon as they are finished so you dont need to pay for tea? Or is the timing for your convenience?

Hi All,

Pre-School Committee member here. Trying to make ends meet for our setting. Currently Govt only funds £8.70 per session per child for the 12.5 hours. If you are to run properly and implement EYFS in any way shape or form ( which would mean more than the bare minimum staff:child ratio) , this barely covers staff costs let alone the rest of what it takes to run a pre-school, and if pre-school's were not able to claw something back from parents for sessions over the 12.5 and lunch/craft etc, many would go under.

Once the 'flexible 15' comes in in Sept and they have to give you 15 hours free, they will be finding every single possible chance to charge you for something just to keep their heads above water. Many who are only open mornings will not be around come Sept, so the others will have more customers and be able to charge more for extra sessions over the 15 hours.

Get used to it! Only £10 extra per week?. You are getting an incredibly good deal.

If you want decently qualified and experienced staff to look after your child, and your child to have some decent resources and equipment to play with, then sorry, but £8.70 per morning the Govt funds doesn't cover it!

Lindax the Govt do want settings to offer flexible places. When the 15 hour entitlement comes in nationally there is a push for this to be offered to suit the needs of parents.

It's causing a nightmare across all providers, both in the maintained(state) and PVI (private,voluntary & Independent)sectors.