To think that when you take your child on holiday with you....

[Amannlyed]

You should at least let him out of the buggy once in a while?? And bring him at least one to play with???? Sorry, but I am goin to have a rant.

I have just come back from a week in Lanzarote with my DH and DD. We were with a friend and her family (met in birthing class, have DDs who are same age) She also has a son (who is now 15months)

Everyday we spent with them, their little boy was in his buggy. The only time they let him out was to put him in a high chair to feed him and to put him in his cot. The weather was very good, and while my DD and her DD got to go in the pool everyday and also into the sea (with their dads) He wasn't allowed into the pool or to put his feet into the sea, he was however, able to watch us all from the comfort of his buggy. He had no toys to play with, they didn't think they would need them but her DD had her toys with her. My friend had said that there wasn't enough room in the cases. Just in case you are wondering, for a weeks holiday in lanzarote, she brought 3 cases. But there wasn't enough room for a toy.

We were all staying in the same apartment complex and we had gone to their apartment for lunch, their boy was out of his buggy (yay) and was crawling around on the floor. He pulled himself up and stood against the table. I was encouraging him, along with his sister, to try and walk towards us. He was maanaging one step and then falling onto his bum. My friend said that we should stop as she didn't want him learning to walk just yet She would rather not spend the rest of the holiday chasing after him, and she was concerned that he would fall on the tiles and hurt himself.

On top of this he was having about 6 naps during the day and she spent the entire holiday moaning about how he wouldn't sleep at night, he just wanted to play. He would get up at 6:30am, they fed him, put him in his buggy and walked around with him along the beach etc, he would fall asleep. They would wake him at lunchtime to feed him, then he would go straight back into his buggy and would fall asleep. If he woke before 3pm, he would get rocked in the buggy til he went to sleep. He would then be taken to their apartment, where he would 'go down for a nap'. While she would complain that probably wouldn't sleep again tonight and how hard it was to keep him entertained etc etc. After his nap, he would be taken down to dinner, he would be given about ten minutes crawling about on the floor of the apartment and then put back in his buggy. No one was allowed to take him out of the buggy to play with him or hold him. At 7pm it would be time for his bed. Surprisingly, he was never tired at this point and just wanted to play.

I kept thinking that it was really sad and I felt sorry for the boy, every time I had a chance to hold him, she would make comments about how I was 'giving in to him' by giving him a cuddle and let him crawl about beside me. My DH said that we shouldn't say anything to them as we might upset them and they might not talk to us...

I had a terrible holiday

Well, I had DH speak to him on the last night. But her DH seems to think it would be easier to let his wife do what she thinks is right. He is a very nice man, and it would appear that he does care for his son, but he wife wears the trousers in the relationship and there is not much he can do. He does moan at her, but like I said she just dismisses him.

DH told him to be a man and to stand up for his children (DH thinks he needs to grow a pair)

well hopefully he'll thikn that through
is 16 months late to be walking? Hopefully the HV will pick up on it

Stealth - her mother does whatever she tells her. She has her under her thumb. Her mother ens up agreeing with her on her 'parenting techniques'

The thing that I really judge on (before the holiday) is at about half six, she would come into the play room (where he was crawling about and playing) lift him and take him to his room, plonk him in his cot and put the tv on (yes he has one in his bedroom) and leave him there for tv time, where watched cbeebies or other nonsense until its official bedtime, when she puts tv and light off. The first time I saw it I said it was bad for him, she should just let him play. But she wanted him out the way so she could clean up and entertain her guests. I think she has done tv time since he was about 1yr old

oh god
can imagine doing that if he was overtired, grumpy etc but as a one off
does she ever interact with him? Kiss him / chat to him?

This is very sad. Children need to have as much time out and about as possible; be it crawling, toddling, running, swimming etc.
I am not denying this is a difficult age, but for goodness sake, there are 2 adults, plus an older child who could amuse him a little if needbe. They would have all had a rest.
It sounds cruel to me.

I would have had to offer to take him in the pool myself at the very least.

Maybe now her dh will stand up to her a bit.

Yeah she will hug him and give him kisses. But she is not overly affectionate, to either of the children I suppose. I reckon she spends about half an hour with him in a whole day, where she would be holding him or chatting/kissing him.

When I first met her at the class, she didn't seem overly excited about having her DD, I thought it was just nerves, maybe she has been depressed since she had her DD??? Surely, someone would have picked up on her behaviour before.

I thought I might have been over critical of her parenting etc as we didnt manage to have a second child, and it doesnt look like we will get that chance now

she could well have been depressed all this time
Sorry to hear about your troubles having 2nd DC

Funnily enough, our experiences are remarkably similar.

They also had a 5 yo DD and she it appeared that she just dismissed any effort her DH made (he would suggest they let him out just for 10 minutes to see how he got on at the play area, offered to take him to the pool, etc) but was basically shot down in flames.

She seemed to think that her DS was completely uncontrollable and would wreck everything and that he was badly behaved because he wouldnt sit still if she let him out of the pram.

I really didnt think it was my place to comment as they were really DH's friends rather than mine so am ashamed to admit I kept quiet and bitched about it to DH instead.

Towards the end of the holiday though I eventually offered to take their kids off their hands a couple of times and took him to the kids club and the beach. He had a whale of a time and tbh was absolutely no problem.

This sounds awful. Is there any way you could, for instance, get this woman to come along to toddler groups with you, so that she might let her DS out of his buggy to play with other toddlers in a safe environment while she can sit and have a cup of tea? The trouble with confronting her about her behaviour is that she will simply cut you off and you won't be able to help: gentle persuasion and demonstration of what other people do might work better.

Rupert - We did offer! Every time we took DD and their DD to the pool/sea we offered. She said no. On the days that she let us have him, so she could have a day off. We took him in the pool, we let him crawl around the kids park, we let him have fun. he was loving it.

ALso this lack of excerise is having an unfortunate effect on his size, he is rather chubby, and wont lose any of it til he is able to move around freely

Sb6699 - how sad that you know someone like this too . I can't understand her behaviour at all tbh, how can you let your child stay strapped into a chair all day, so you can have piece and quiet?? I was worried that I would get called a troll, as I thought this kind of situation rarely happens does it?

I have encouraged her a few times to take him to the local toddler group, but she is always too busy. I don't know how else to approach her

YADNBU about most of it, especially the walking part - poor little boy .

Wrt to the toys and the sleeping all day, when we took dd1 to Spain when she was 16 months old, we only took a few books, no toys, we didn't have room and didn't think she would need/want them. She did sleep most of the days. The heat, coupled with her lack of appetite was just too mcuh for her to cope with. So her evenings were long.

Having said, the times she was awake, she was walking about, enjoying the pool/beach. We went on trips to water parks and the zoo especially for her. And her evenings were filled with visits to fun pubs and arcades.

I dont really know what you could say to her tbh.

I would imagine she would take it as criticism and become defensive. At the same time, offering to take him for her so he has some fun time doesnt really offer a long term solution.

This sounds bloody awful. That poor boy, I can't imagine anyone actively keeping a child sat in a pushchair because the mother didn't want the child to walk yet. She sounds fucking bone idle to me. Sorry about the language but I am really angry that there are parents like this when there are decent people out there who are desperate for children and would do anything to be in her position.

It sounds like you did everything you could to try and get him out, it must have really ruined your holiday. I guess this is why they say don't go on holiday with friends (I did when I was 18 and we didn't speak for years after).

And is she really that stupid that she can't see why he isn't sleeping at night! From the age of about 5 months, my DS would only have 3 half hour sleeps a day and that was a stuggle to get him to have them. He was a good sleeper at night though. I can't believe how much this poor boy sleeps. I suppose he is used to it which makes it even more .

Its making me feel really just thinking about him.

Coldhands - i would gladly take him off her hands if she asked. I found it very sad and to the point where it was distressing to watch so I would suggest we took him for a walk. I don't think I could go on another holiday, but she was suggesting we have a week in the north of scotland in summer

I think I will have to have a word with her, but do it as gently as possible. Maybe by dropping gentle hints about how he needs his exercise/to learn to walk so he can drop some of his weight? I don't know how else to tackle it really. Start small.

Do you think she would 'realise' if you talked about your own experience, as I mentioned? Or do you think it will need to be direct?
I wonder if she is depressed or just lazy

Hmm, yes it must be very difficult if you do want to keep the friendship.

If you didn't, it may be that you have to be a bit blunt with her. Goodness know what you can say in a gentle way (I am about as subtle as a housebrick in the face).

Is there anyway you can say that you can't afford to go away again? Or say that your DH wants it to be just you and your DC to go away together. Where is her SH is all this? Doesn't he think their DS should be allowed to get out of the pushchair!

Coldhands - Her DH is dismissed with a wave of her hand. I had my DH talk to him on the last night, and he gave him some advice and told him to stand up for his children. It is a waiting game to see if he takes the advice on board. He did seem to be distressed by the boy being in his buggy all day, but couldn't do anything about it.

Tbh, i don't know if I could or would want to continue the friendship after what I had seen on the holiday. I just thought we had different ways of doing things before that, but it would appear that she is either too lazy to take care of her own children or she is depressed and may need help/support.

I hadn't thought about suggesting we wanted to be on our own, I suppose I could tell her that we needed time together as a family as its important etc etc to see if she gets the hint??

Can't believe her DH doesn't just take HIS son out of the pushchair anyway. He is as much his DC and he is hers. Lets hope her listens to your DH although if she is that dismissive of him, it may not work.

I think I would find it difficult to be friends with someone like this.

I am also struggling to see how keeping her DS from walking could stem from her being depressed. It just sounds really lazy to me. I am not dismissing PND btw, I had it myself and know how awful it is but she really sounds like she wants her DS to do things when it is convenient to her, not when he is ready.

good point - the "asking my permission to hold his own son" thing for DH stopped when he realised DS wouldn't break if he didn't hold him in exaclty the right position
You've had PND and I haven't so you're probably right - no experience, just guessing

was the boy 'chatty' and alert?
and shouting for attention?

or simply sitting there calmly?

Bloody hell!
That's awful.

I took my DD to Indonesia (Bali, Lombok and Gili Islands) on my own when she was 12 months.
She crawled about all over the place, wasn't walking but learned to pull herself up whilst we were there.
I would never have kept her in the buggy unless necessary and she was in the pool or sea most days.
She ate what I ate, (as well as insects, dirt, sand and her own shit!) stayed out with me till midnight and had a ball.

Of course she can't remember it but loves looking at the photos.

Your friend sounds bonkers, weird, over protective and in need of a slap good talking to.

That is just so sad. A small toddler needs to be out & about exploring new things. When DD was 15 months old we took her to Barbados for 2 weeks. She had the run of the apartment, went swimming in both se & pool every day and we did loads of other stuff with her. I know she had a ball...we were knackered by the end of it though!!

I really hope you can get through to your friend that her DS needs to be allowed to be a toddler.

I've been thinking of this thread all day and giving my boy extra cuddles.