to think that this 'epidemic' of overweight children is bullshit

[EssenceOfJack]

For example, article here about a child who is 'overweight'
According to this children's BMI calculator my DD1 is on the 93rd percentile and is overweight when if you look on my profile you can clearly see that she is nothing of the sort.

Are they just measuring these small children when BMI means feck all (the calculator reckons it can tell you results for children from 2 to 20) and declaring them overweight based on arbitrary measurements and then the NHS using these figures to tell us all our children are fat?

I ask in all seriousness as at DD1's primary school I can genuinely say I haven't noticed one overweight child, and we live in a mildly deprived area so are supposed to be rife with 'fat kids'. yes, some have baby fat still, but they aren't fat

So AIBU?

I have had a letter from school telling me my DD is underweight Now THAT makes you feel bad,neglectful as if I'm starving the poor kid.She eats lots of fruit and veg and protein but doesn't doesn't like bread,potatoes rice or pasta much.People say it is really good for LOs to like their fruit and veg but I'm not convinced that to eat as much as DD does is healthy for a 5 YO they need calories to grow surely ?

custard with everything, especially flapjack type things. All of which dd rejects. Imagine turning down sticky toffee gingerbread. Eh?

Catholic too, so maybe it is indeed holy custard!

I know exactly how you feel howmuch. Chips and fullfat milk readybrek. For dinner lunch and tea sometimes!

Mine gets choice of fruit at break, I so wish they would give them a slice of brown bread and butter!

My DD is 93rd centile for height and weight but I've always been a bit concerned about her sticky out belly (she's 2.8). I'd like to think if she got 'the letter' I'd just think 'ok, let's fix it' rather than get upset, as PP said it is about her needs, not mine.

Posie - I agree we can't afford to sugar coat this. As parents we are piled with guilt about everything so it's not surprising we don't want to upset our kids and deprive them of treats etc. My mum used to insist I just had puppy fat and I slightly resent that laissez-faire attitude now! Obviously my weight is my responsibility now so it's very important to me that my 2 grow up healthy from the start.

Mind you pretty much the 1st question I asked HV when she came to meet DS was "is he more likely to be overweight when he is older" - because he was born weighing 11lb 14oz. HV reassured me though

3m

hmc - only just trawled through whole thread and spotted your unnecessary but very sweet bristling in my behalf, thanks!

When talking to DS's consultant about DS never appearing to feel hungry she confirmed that there are different types of metabolic responses and that some children get shaky if they don't eat regularly. Others like DS appear to have a disconnect between their empty belly and their brain. Weight is rarely as simple an issue as some would suggest. I suspect some people probably feel hungry more etc...

We have seen a child psychologist and a dietician and at one point followed the advice of leave him alone and he will naturally start eating. He didn?t and became very thin. We also followed the advice of snacking between meals. Our dentist says this is not a good idea.

Also did anyone see Generation XXL a few weeks back about overweight kids? It really made me sad when this 6yr old was really unhealthily big and her mum just refused to do anything felt so sorry for her. I can understand mums dont want to say no to their kids but she is doing much more harm than good

Also why would you agree to go on a tv show about it and then be in complete denial?!

3m

There are sensible reasons to be concerned about this form of state nannying. Firstly, as has been explained, the measurement is imprecise and brings up some false results, your child might be flabby and unfit but have an ok BMI and another child who is highly athletic might come up as obese (eg child in the paper). So one parent stays unaware another is stigmatised.

As an example, I used to compete in sport at a high level and my BMI looked pretty good but compared with some team-mates when the calipers came out (i.e. pinching the fat from the muscle) my actual body fat was fairly high, their weight was more muscle. Even this isn't the full story, some people are very slim but carry a lot of internal fat.

Secondly, it is human nature for children to talk about their weight and as they get older and the test is done in year 6, it may cause unwarranted anxiety. As I have posted my daughter is very tall and I knew that she would feel worried to be a lot heavier than her friends. I had never weighed her as I don't see what it adds. If you have a good body image then you can tell if your child is over or underweight.

IMO schools are for educating your child. A doctor's surgery is a good place for checking your child is a healthy weight with the parent there and in consultation. If it has to be at school then it should be a full health check with the parent invited in.

Yes, there is an obesity problem in all westernised nations where there is a fast food culture (interesting to see it now beginning in France). I'm for a tax on all fast food outlets for the burden they cause to the tax payer and for all the littering.

In case it should be relevant I do know my children's weights now and, according to the BMI tables they are in the healthy weight section and me too I should think.

To MM7777 why not see a nutritionist about your son? It is clearly concerning you and you might be missing something. When you think of the importance of good health, two or three sessions is a great investment.

She looks as though she has quite a stomach on her on this
and aso on the C4 interview looked tubbier.
I agree with the poster who thought the DM photos had been doctored.

"The child in the DM picture does look over weight"

nooka - I don't want an argument but what on earth do you mean? Honestly, I truly don't see it. The child has a flat stomach, not convex, and she is not wide in the girth. Her limbs look well proportioned and not flabby (i hate to unpick her like this - but am mystified at why you think there is an issue). What does a normal weight child look like to you? Sparrow spindly limbs that could snap in a strong wind ?

I don't like to see obese children either and agree it is an important health issue, but I don't think they need to look skinny to be deemed okay. Just not carrying excess adipose!

HMC - have you looked at the picture in the link above or at the C4 interview.

Yes - re the photo - I take that to be the contours of her coat and warm clothing rather than a sticky out tummy. My dd is lean and athletic, but can look, misleadingly, quite portly in the multiple layers I dress her in during cold weather. When she goes rock climbing in an unheated (icy cold) aircraft hanger type builder on Sunday mornings she can't bend in the middle due to the extra layers. So, I don't think that photo suggests the child is overweight. You'd need her to take the coat off to be certain of that.

Re the televised interview - she is sitting down so it's hard to assess. She looks pretty average though

I think that around the tummy area there is a quite definite bulge.
The problem is we have changed our ideas of what is average s.If I look at my primary school class photos now, the kids we thought of as fat at the time are similar to this little girl as seen in the link above and on TV (as I've said before DM pics are a bit suspect)

Perfectly normal for a little girl of five to have a tummy and right up to being a woman. The posts suggesting this little girl has any weight issues just confirm to me why school weigh ins are such a bad idea.

Unfortunately I have found that by the time girls are about eight many are adopting the idea that to be ultra skinny is better than to be normal weight. I moved my daughter from one school partly because I didn't like the culture an anorexic girl was creating. At her present school I was proud for her but sad that she had the experience of talking through the situation with a friend on finding her to be bulimic.

I really don't see how that little girl looks overweight - she looks absolutely fine, in the photos shown anyway.

Mainly the slight double chin really, her neck looks a little wide and her hands where they are bent look quite full. Not really possible to tell from a photo of a fully dressed child, which is why I think it's a bit daft to say that the NHS measurements (against national standards backed by research) must be wrong on the basis of a photograph. If all it took was a quick look at a photo then that's what would be done, much quicker and cheaper than sending a nurse into every school to measure and weigh all the children).

I suspect it is very marginal, but a small tweak to eating habits at this age would address any issues with no stress to the child (they wouldn't have to know after all). Healthy eating habits have life long benefits. Of course all children are different, and small things (like how much a child fidgets) can make a big difference. But no I don't think that five year olds should be carrying fat on their tummies, and I do think you should be able to count their ribs.

God I am sorry I started this thread. Can we not pick over the girl in the article, poor thing, and just stay on the point that is it the arbitrary measurements from BMI charts that mean the 'stats' say there is are loads of obese kids, or are there actually loads of obese children.

Reading through it does look like it depends where you are TBH.

The BMI charts are not arbitrary. They are just quite crude, and for some children (but quite a small number) they will not accurately define whether the child is over or under weight. This is true for most screening tests, which is why they are used for screening, and not for diagnosis. But you have to think that if your child's BMI falls at over 90% then they are heavier for their height than 90% of children their age. Now there might be exceptional reasons for that, but being a bit sporty is unlikely to be one of them, as more than 10% of children are sporty (if they were a competitive swimmer or something that would be different IMO, but very few five years olds come into this category). It is perfectly possible to be overweight and active, if you eat more than you should.

All the evidence is that as a nation we are getting fatter and a lot less healthy. This is borne out particularly by the rising rates of type II diabetes, something that really bothers doctors, as it used to be rare in young children.

(NB I only gave some analysis as to why I thought this poor child might be carrying extra weight because I was asked btw, her mother is the one who decided to put her into the media, and effectively ask the world to judge whether she was overweight).

Fair point re your NB, I thought it would be in one paper but she has gone on telly and in every paper going, which is just excessive.
DD1 is the height of an average 6 yr old, which is part of the reason why she is so much heavier than her peers, and she is also solid muscle, as agreed by GP when we were referred by HV and GP laughed her out of the room after seeing DD1 in her underwear.

I saw the mother of this girl being interviewed on television this morning. From the weight on her upper arms and the padding around her abdomen as she sat down, I would say the mother is slightly overweight. Which is probably where this girl is headed. So a fair call by the NHS I would say.

Well exactly, I really don't think you can judge with clothes on, whihc is why swimming pools are a fairly good place to get an idea of whether children are generally over or underweight. My children are both tall (dd at 9 is wearing clothes for 14 year olds now) and their BMIs are in the normal range (ds being quite low and dd in the middle). I come from a tall slim family so that's what I expect I guess. dh's family are either tall and thin or very short and wide (especially the women), so I do keep an eye, but having seen the diets of his fatter cousins I suspect that it's not genes but lifestyle that is the issue.

Here she is on uTube : www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XYpaIe54zQ. I love the way that the mum and the reporter just say there is no way that the numbers could possibly be right, with no reference to any research or evidence, just that she looks like a nice little girl and she is active, so of course she can't be overweight. You can be lovely and active too and still weigh a little more than is ideal.

You don't need research and evidence with respect to this child nooka - just a pair of eyes in your head and a decent quota of brain cells. She is not fat. FFs - those of you who are suggesting she is have the distorted perceptions

Nooka, you seem to have a bit of a bee in your bonnet regardign this little girl. Is it necessary to go into such analysis as to whether she's overweight or not. Again - to me she looks perfectly normal - overweight would not even register with me. Now you're analysing the mum who again looks quite normal and not what I would call noticebly overweight.

It wasn't me analysing the mum! I don't think she is fat in any case. I can just see why she might have a relatively high BMI.