about DD's accident?

[Mermaidspam]

More of a WWYD I suppose...

DD (7) was at a horse riding party on Sunday here.

There were 10 children, with 5 horses. One of the pair would ride the horse while the other was leading/running beside it. DD was doing this when the horse decided it had an itch (DD's words) and kicked her hand quite hard. There were a couple of the parent supervising (along with the person in charge of the horse rides) and the rest of us parents were in the pub having a cuppa. When dd came in she told me what had happened, her hand was quite swollen so another parent went to the bar and got some ice in a napkin told hold on it.

The children then had a small meal (DD was up and down from the table to me and DH, complaining how much her hand was hurting). She can be quite a "milker" so I was just saying don't worry, it'll be fine, eat your meal, etc.

Afterwards we went to my parent's house for our tea. All the way there she was complaining about it. I asked her wh\t the lady teaching them had said and DD said that when she told the lady, she said "just hold it down by your side and it'll be fine"

When we got there I had another look and it had swollen more. My Mum supplied more ice and suggested we get her looked at by A&E, so off we went.

After 3 hours at the hospital it turned out that her hand was broken.

Anyway, AIBU to contact the place it happened as she was not seen by a first aider and it is highly unlikely to have been put into an accident book as the leader didn't even know dd's name? (Am not after compo, btw , just a bit concerned)

WWYD?

"Why not at least give them the chance to deal with the situation themselves? " Yes.

Hi, its a different scenario, as i had no complaints about the way the party was organised, but my 4 year old son broke his leg at a 'gymanastics place' on the trampolines. They had a first aider but he didnt know what was wrong and was unable to advise about whether to take him to hospital or not. In the end I did but not immediately - only when we went home and he wanted to go to bed. Afterwards I emailed the party place and said that it was to inform them for their records as although they logged it as an accident it was only logged as a sore knee rather than a broken leg. I got no response which I assume was because they didnt want to acknowledge anything in case I was planning to sue them.

On the other hand my ds fell on uneven paving outside a council sports centre. We took him inside to get him patched up before taking him to a and e. He eventually needed 4 stitches

The sports centre followed us up with phone calls twice in the following fortnight 'for their records'. I realise they were covering their backs in case we decided to sue but even so, they wanted and needed to know what the upshot was. This stables should too.

It's one thing to not see what happened but for the parents watching to have no idea that it had happened which was what I took from what the OP said:

"I am a bit confused by the whole thing as the parents that were watching didn't know it had happened either."

Surely they would have seen her upset, say she'd been kicked, telling the 'teacher' etc.

I quite believe that people didn't realise she was hurt. I've watched a child break his arm in a trampoline accident while myself and other parents watched. The child didn't cry, didn't complain. He just stopped bouncing a went a bit quiet. His parents decided to take him to hospital and the rest of us all clucked about how over protective they were and how surely we would have been able to tell if he'd hurt himself.

But of course they knew better and were right. The child had broken his arm badly in quite a complicated fracture .

Lesson to self - parents usually know their own child best and not all children scream if they break their bones .

Did your dd actually tell an adult what happened at the time or did you only complain to you at the pub?

Young 'uns leading young 'uns is a recipe for disaster.

I'd definitely raise this with the school and in fact the BHS too because any instructor worth their salt should have more sense, even if it was a spur of the minute arrangement at their discretion.

Regarding the injury, they managed it badly and should have paid her and her hand more attention but it's possible it didn't seem quite so bad to your DD amidst the adrenaline rush of the party?

I got back on with concussion, a fractured sternum, ribs and coccyx once. I had no idea I was as injured as I was and neither was anyone else.

"The sports centre followed us up with phone calls twice in the following fortnight 'for their records'. I realise they were covering their backs in case we decided to sue but even so, they wanted and needed to know what the upshot was. This stables should too." It was nice of the sports centre to follow up, but not essential, and it wouldn't have made any difference if you had decided to sue them.
The stables didn't realise this little girl was badly hurt. She had been to see her mum, so why should they need to ring and follow up? Unless every bump and knock children get is something that needs to be followed up? In which case riding schools may as well pack up now, because working and playing around large animals inevitably results in a few minor injuries.
Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but does anyone else think that our children's lives are getting less interesting and adventurous because as a society we just worry too much? Knocks, scrapes and minor injuries are part of growing up. In the case of dealing with horses and other animals, they are even part of the learning process.
I agree with people who say that the way this session was conducted was wrong. I don't agree that anyone had any particular reason to be concerned until later in the day when it became obvious that the injury might be a bit more than just a knock. If the little girl's mum didn't think it was anything to worry about when she went to visit her in the pub, why should anyone else think there was a significant problem?
Anyway, rant over.

I'm amazed it's a BHS approved centre as can't imagine any riding school I know letting unknown, novice children lead other novice, unknown children. And at a party? I also can't imagine how the school could get insurance for that? Not v helpful I know but I really would query it. And the school should, for insurance purposes, have written a report for you to sign, even if nobody was aware that she'd broken her hand.

I think the centre were being cheapskates in not providing adequate adult supervision.I would definitely write to them about your DD and see what response you get.
I wouldn't worry about the not believing her thing ime breaks are not necessarily terrifically painful to begin with ,but get more as time progresses

Surprising the centre didn't implement a proper accident policy (assuming they knew there'd been an accident of course), but you didn't realise she needed proper first aid for several hours, so probably not surprising that no-one else did either.

Don't feel bad about that though - my friends 5 yo had a broken arm for 2 days before anyone thought it could be something serious!

Not a one-off situation. She has been to these parties 3 times now and the most adults I have seen is 2 (for 10 children).

To clear a couple of things up -

• This happened about 4:45, DD immediately informed member of staff and was told "just put it down by your side".
• She came into the pub with the rest of the party for the meal and told me what had happened about 5:05.
• I was initially a bit miffed as none of the adults who were watching (from about 25-50 yards away) told me about the incident. I quickly realised that none of them knew when they started fussing round her and asking how it happened.
• The member of staff who was responsible did not come into the pub (it would have taken 2 minutes to tell me what happened).
• No member of staff made any enquiries as to her hand (even after another parent had got ice from them and told them why she needed it).
• I completely accept that minor injuries can happened in these situations, but you don't expect your child to come away from a party with broken bones IMO.

Itsmeolord - good advice - ta.

I think horse riding is an activity where you can expect broken bones to be a possibility tbh - I broke my arm falling off a walking horse once - but I would expect a party at a centre to be run to minimize the risk of injury. Ponies are very strong and inexperienced children should not be leading them (whether or not someone is riding them).

"but you don't expect your child to come away from a party with broken bones IMO. "

Well I think it's a distinct possibility if parties involve riding, climbing etc. Unfortunate but not that surprising.

I was at an adventure park recently and dd1 had a pony ride. I was told to lead the pony - I did this, but the pony was quite lively and I had a job to keep him going in the right direction and at right speed (I have minimal experience of horses). So I'm sure many 7 year olds would struggle with it. Sounds very lax to me.

Horse riding is never going to be a completely safe sport by its very nature. There's no such thing as a 'bombproof' pony. DD1 broke her arm in November when she fell off for the hundredth time, but this time landed on a pole on the ground (there for jumping practice). Sheer bad luck.

Agree with the others that it's not acceptable for 7 yo novices to lead others. DD2 (also 7) is learning to ride now, and the other day they spent part of a lesson learning how to lead properly. There were only two of them in the group, three adults present (a teacher and two parents), and most importantly, nobody was riding the ponies at the time. At one point one of the Shetlands made a dash for the hay barn because even a small pony is that much stronger than a small child, but the teacher was close enough to get the rope before anyone was hurt or the pony escaped.

Absolutely agree.

However, if I was sending DD for a Horse riding lesson I would surely be required to sign numerous forms regarding health and safety, disclaimers, etc. Therefore "accepting" the possibility of injury.

With this situation there was nothing, just the invitation (a Hannah Montana one sent by the girl whose party it was, not from the place itself).

Would you agree?

I suppose to some extent the fact that you are there, knowing she was riding the horse, was in itself acknowledgement that she had your permission to ride. And I imagine disclaimers were posted somewhere as well. I agree, it sounds as if the supervision was a bit lax, and I am surprised at 7yo's leading the horses.

dd broke her leg and i didn't for a second think anything was wrong with her other than a bad bump, nor did 5 out of the 6 mothers who were there and tended to her so i can understand how easy it is to miss these things.

however the mothers there at the time took every precaution imaginable... ice, elevation, stopping her from moving and once i arrived i brought her home and rang emergency docs and brought her straight ot a&e on their advice.

the mother whose house she did it at rang me at the hospital and again later to check how she was and was so concerned and upset at what had happened.

so while it's understandable for an injury to be underestimated i think in a public setting all precautions should have been taken for your dd and it's unforgivable that they weren't... and that's completely aside from the fact that your dd should never have been in that position in the first place, a 7 year old simply isn't big enough, sensible enough or strong enough to be in charge of leading a horse.... shocking on the school's part.

No way children of 7 (esp. possibly non-experienced children of 7 at a party) should be leading horses. Horrible, horrible practice - I'm quite sure that wouldn't comply with BHS standards - it's a while since I did my BHS exams but I'm fairly certain that's not on!

And they should have an accident book - my old yard, which was fairly ramshackle and by no means BHS compliant, would log every fall or other incident, no matter how minor - for the purposes of their insurances they had to. I fell off in a field half a mile away from the yard, on my own horse, and they still examined me, wrote up the incident and made sure I was packed off to A&E as soon as poss. AND wanted to know what had happened to me at the hospital!

They sound a bit shit, tbh - our place ran pony parties and they would not allow more children than they had horses for, and would always supply leaders - in fact, the larger part of the party would be spent grooming the soft-as-butter ancient old pony who loved being fussed over so the girls could do all the 'my little pony' stuff with him and learn a bit of stablecraft

Hope your DD has a speedy recovery

I don't think you have to sign disclaimers because they aren't worth the paper they are written on. If they are negligent no disclaimer will change that.
The problem in recent years is that a couple of "silly" insurance claims have been upheld. An adult fell off a horse in a lesson and managed to successfully sue the school, which then went out of business. The result of these claims is that the insurance premiums have gone sky high, and all over the country riding schools are closing. Which is a real shame, a passion for ponies was what kept me out of mischief when I was young.
I would still take this up with the owner of the school before doing anything else though. It seems the obvious first course of action. For all we know they might go ballistic about the whole thing and deal with it.

I would let them know but as you didn't spot it I don't think reasonable they would have either. She should have had more than put you hand by your side though!

I have two friends (both teachers with first aid qualifications) who completely missed their respective childrens broken bones.

One was accompanying her son on a primary school outing (she worked p/t then), he fell getting on the bus (I think). She ignored his complaints all day (no crying etc) but by the end of the day he did look quite pale - turned out he had a broken collar bone.

The other lots daughter had a broken arm for a week before they went to A & E (fell off a wall). Again, no severe pain as you would expect with a broken bone.

I would definitely let them know! Horse kicks can be lethal - if it had been her head she wouldn't be here with you so tell them. They should not have had inexperienced people leading the horses.

Of course all the forms are important, but I'm more interested in the actual safety measures taken to avoid this sort of thing happening.

Agree a few knocks to be expected when riding BUT shockingly bad practice to allow 7 yr olds to lead or even to run beside mounted ponies, therefore this was a preventable accident. I hope at least the dc on the ground were wearing hard hats as well as the riders (so easy for dc (and adults for that matter) to get kicked in the head) ....

There should have been more riding school staff present too ...preferably 4 or 5. If not all instructors, then at least some experienced adolescents or working pupils.

On the other hand, being strictly fair, I don't think you can entirely blame the member of staff for not noticing the incident itself (they can happen in a flash) OR for not realising your dd's hand was broken if you yourself didn't think it was a serious injury initially. It may not have started swelling immediately.

Also, I wouldn't have gone back there for a third time with the level of supervision as it is.

In your shoes I would contact the BHS first (mentioning no names initially) and ask:

(a) what is best practice in this situation ie what do they think of 7 yr olds leading mounted ponies at a party (they will definitely be unimpressed!)

(b) what is their recommended level of adult supervision per child/per pony at a party?

(c) has the riding school in question broken any specific BHS regulation or guideline?

(d) what powers to the BHS have for any possible infringement of said guidelines?

THEN you can ring the riding school and explain your concerns armed with all the correct info.

Depending on their response you can then ring the BHS back and report them - or not - they may just send an Inspector along to check the place out.

Hope your dd's hand recovers soon!

www.bhs.org.uk/About_Us/Departments/Approvals.aspx

sorry, that should have read, do they have concerning