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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think Morrisons are taking licensing laws too far?

93 replies

Housemum · 12/02/2010 19:09

So DH offers to pick up teenage DD from dancing as he's going past that way and stops off at Morrisons to buy tonight's dinner and a couple of bottles of beer. Cashier asks him for ID which flattered him for a second as he's 40 with grey hair, till the cashier says, "no, for her". No replies DH as she's too young and the beer is for me - so the cashier refuses to serve him. Now I am all for stopping teenage binge drinking, but I thought the law was about believing someone had intent to supply to a minor - so if he was buying alcopops, cider or even possibly white wine I could understand but looking at the two of them it would be pretty easy to spot the likely real ale drinker! Grrr - anyone else want to share their tales of refusal or tell me that Morrisons are completely justified?

OP posts:

Georgimama · 14/02/2010 09:14

Teenagers might look much older these days (I doubt this) but 25 year olds do not look 17. 30 year olds do not look 17. I fail to see how demanding that adults of 25+ walk around with ID helps prevent a 16 year old buying alcohol.

I don't work within the pub industry no, but failure by me to verify the ID of my clients properly could in certain circumstances lead to me being imprisoned for 15 years, so I am quite able to comprehend the need to be vigilant about necessary compliance with the law thanks.

I just don't see how applying a blanket policy with all the discretion of a housebrick helps retailers achieve this.

expatinscotland · 14/02/2010 09:15

Challenge 21 is the dumbest thing I have ever heard of since GWB, Jr. was US president.

The drinking age is 18 here.

So ID people who look under 18 or change the fecking drinking age to 25 and be done with it.

US law is US law. Americans are used to carrying around ID because most have a driving license adn they live in a police state.

The law is 21 there adn that's what they 'card' for.

Spottyshoes · 14/02/2010 09:18

I wasn't just asked for ID but actually refused alcohol in my local Co-op as I didn't have any ID on me. I am 30. Was very annoyed as the lady had been serving me for about 6 years and it was only some cheap crap for cooking with. Did have a 2yr old and 3 month old with me though so maybe she thought it was for them

Did me a favour though as I had to go to Lidl instead and discovered they sell really cheap wine that is actually very nice

queenoftheslatterns · 14/02/2010 09:27

"I don't work within the pub industry no, but failure by me to verify the ID of my clients properly could in certain circumstances lead to me being imprisoned for 15 years, so I am quite able to comprehend the need to be vigilant about necessary compliance with the law thanks."

so then you should understand! or as cashiers/barmaids etc are we a bit too dopey to have the right to protect ourselves from prosecution? i DONT think that the challenge 25 is excessive. and i dont see what the problem is with carrying id on you (but then am not opposed to the id card scheme)

"Teenagers might look much older these days (I doubt this) but 25 year olds do not look 17. 30 year olds do not look 17. I fail to see how demanding that adults of 25+ walk around with ID helps prevent a 16 year old buying alcohol"

the problem is a 17 year old can (as ive already said) look like they are in their early 20's. and its the 17 year olds that are protected by the licensing objectives. for every ten 30 year old's who look 25 and i id there may be one 16 year old who looks 19 and will not be served because of the blanket policy.

what are the other options.

and alexandra, i too will serve alcohol as part of a family shop etc

Georgimama · 14/02/2010 10:58

We are clearly not going to agree about this in any way. Why you would ID a 30 year old who looks 25 is utterly beyond me, not to mention contrary to the whole challenge 25 thing anyway. If they look 25 they are quite clearly over 18.

Perhaps you enjoy the momentary sense of power.

queenoftheslatterns · 14/02/2010 11:04

yes georgie, thats it.

queenoftheslatterns · 14/02/2010 11:05

oh and i id people who look younger than 25 because i DONT KNOW if they are over 18. its really not that hard to get your head around.

mii · 14/02/2010 11:15

I complained about the nob in our tesco who id'd be everytime I went to the shop, even though he had already seen my id 4 times that week

I once went and bought a scratchcard and got id'd (am 26!) and then got back to the car and had forgotten to buy filters for DH. Went back in not 3 mins later and he asked for my id again and actually stood there looking at it for about 10 seconds.

ScreaminEagle · 14/02/2010 11:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

ScreaminEagle · 14/02/2010 11:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

ravenAK · 14/02/2010 21:09

But if I got myself a PASS ID card -

(I'm 39, btw, started going out drinking at 14, & to my recollection the last time I was ID'd was aged 18, in a touristy pub in Stratford-upon-Avon, when my friend & I were refused a drink despite producing ID because the landlord didn't like his mohawk...)

then I still presumably couldn't buy a bottle of wine if I had my dc in tow. Which isn't a problem as such, except that any supermarket playing this sort of silly buggers will promptly lose my custom.

I'm just a little at the 'arguments' put forward on this thread for IDing people who are clearly over 18. 'I might lose my job/get fined' is a position, sure, & an entirely reasonable one.

It's not an argument for having such a daft policy in the first place.

brightwell · 15/02/2010 07:40

It's not just alcohol, my dd & a few friends tried to buy a pot of ice cream and a pack of plastic spoons. The cashier refused to sell them the plastic spoons because they're cutlery.

sparechange · 15/02/2010 14:36

I'm not an expert on this, but it is my understanding that the law was reworded recently around 'proxy buying' ie an adult buying booze on behalf of a child, so more emphasis is put on the retailer if the failed to take resonable steps to check an adult isn't buying on behalf of a minor.

The law gives a maximum punishment of several thousand pounds and over-zealous supermarket managers have been threatening staff that they will personally have to pay the fine if the shop is caught and prosecuted.

Interestingly, the government also looked last year at changing the law around cigarettes to make it an offence to 'proxy buy' cigarettes for under-18s. (It isn't currently against the law, so you can't get refused cigarettes/tobacco if you have a child with you in the same way they can do with wine)

During the debate in the house of commons, the government ministers threw out the proposal on the advice of the home office, who have said the proxy purchase law around alcohol isn't working and is proving very difficult to enforce, so creating the same law around tobacco would be a bad idea.

Not sure if the government will actually do anything about it, but at least they have acknowledged it is stupid!

edam · 15/02/2010 14:50

Interesting that the home office have noticed stopping people buying alcohol if they happen to have children with them isn't working. Now I wish they'd tell the ruddy supermarkets.

Classic example of a stupid rule that becomes even more irritating in the hands of stupid people. (Whoever sets the policy at supermarkets, not the individual cashiers who are at risk of being fined/losing their jobs if they don't follow orders, no matter how daft.)

Buying alcohol is a perfectly legal activity for adults. I can't help thinking that those who reckon it's softening a whole generation up for ID cards are right.

Original poster

Housemum · 16/02/2010 01:25

DD1 agreed that Morrisons were being over-zealous, in her training at Sainsbury's she was told to be cautious but apply common sense - hence person with teenager buying alcopops/cider/wine worth questioning, family with wine/beer pretty normal. And it's not illegal to drink at home, so the law/policies are pretty contradictory. At 16, I believe you can drink certain drinks in pubs/restaurants with a meal, and it is legal for you to drink at home.

OP posts:

tortoiseonthehalfshell · 16/02/2010 02:12

You can't buy cutlery if you're underage in Britain?

Seriously?

CardyMow · 16/02/2010 04:24

Oh god I'd forgotten about the teaspoons, DD went to tescos for me as we had lost all our teaspoons, tried to buy a pack (JUST spoons, not even a fork in there ). Tescos wouldn't sell them to her. DD even turned round to the cashier and asked if he thought she was going to spoon someone to death....

BritFish · 16/02/2010 14:51

i worked in sainsburys, and they too have moved up to the 'under 25's' rule.

with parents, staff are told to use their common sense. some cases i would even think of asking for id, but as it has been mentioned, if a 40 year old and a 16/17 year old came along with alcopops, id be concerned.
im not psychic, i dont know your age or whos booze it is.

the 25 rule is in place because it makes it easier for us to ID people. there are plenty of 24/25 year olds who look 18, plenty of 15 year olds who look 18. it makes it as easy as the issue can possibly be for us!

please dont be angry at being id'ed, if you just ask for a supervisor to make the call, they'll 9/10 sell it to you.

yeah some people are over-cautious.
but its your happiness vs. our job/peace of mind
sorry!

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