to be really annoyed with work right now

[asteri]

Well basically I work in local government and we have just undergone a pay review, this has taken in excess of three years to complete. The purpose of the pay review so we were were told was to make sure that workers across the board all had a decent wage and to make sure that people that who did the same job got paid the same wage (as opposed to before, where two people could be doing the same job but one would be getting significantly more just because they had beeen here longer) We got the results if our pay review on Wednesday and almost across the Council there have been pay cuts. However, the senior members of staff were assessed using a different system (the hays as opposed to the NJC) and they have, by majority, come out of it with pay increases, some of them very substantial.Am I just being cynical in thinking that this is yet another example of "those in higher places looking after themselves at the expense of everyone else"

YADNBU there. Doesn't surprise me one bit.

That would really piss me off and I'd want to be reading further to see if my prejudices were confirmed.

How 'independently reviewed' was it?

Hi LaurieFairyCake, the Council employed an external body to do the pay review. It has been confirmed, I have three friends in seniorpositions who have come out with almost £7k pay rise and our manager has confirmed yesterday that he got a "small raise".
and to add insult to injury there was a press release given to the local paper to explain the "many pay cuts" throughout the Council which was puiblished before we even got our results, so the whole flaming town knew before we did.

I'm guessing the argument here is the comparison with the private sector ie. admin-y type jobs with low skills are cheaper in the private sector but 'mangement' jobs can be better paid.

I find any system which increases the gap between the 'richer' and the 'poorer' hard to swallow but that's just me.

If they're comparing like-with-like and its been independantly done you're going to have to come to terms with it - perhaps with just a cynical raised eyebrow

Well Laurie, I can understand your point, and yes increasing the gap between richer and poorer makes me sick too, and sorry this is my fault for not explaining it properly (mainly cos im fuming lol)but the external body that was paid to do the pay review did have representatives from the Council on it, so even though they werent carrying it out they were involved. Now, my job, as well as the others in this office are not admin jobs, they are whats termed skilled professional, you cannot do them without the relevant degree/qualifications/professional memberships and the work is very difficult and very time consuming and there is A LOT of responsibility, now, when we first started these jobs the salary wasnt great, I think it was two or three scale points (approx £900-1000 a year) more than admin, but there was room to progress, salary-wise the longer you were in the job and the more responsibility you got. now we are taking a pay cut which puts us practically level with an admin wage, we will still get the extra responsibility's over time but no extra pay, while our managers/senior officers (the last of which dont actually manage us or do anything thats really more complicated), have been assessed under a different system and come out with massive pay rises. Then, oddly enough, the departments that work closely with the chief exec who were already being way over the odds have also been assessed under the different system and come out winners.

That's truly shit - your skilled job being almost level with an admin job now. Is there an equivalent private sector job which you can use as evidence to appeal against?

oh yeah and it does sound very suspicious - them all working together.

I have been looking at similar job vacancies to see what there is and what pay is available, but I also have to get "permission" to appeal, before I can appeal I have to meet with the pay review board and they explain how they got where they got and I put my case across and then they decide whether or not I have grounds for appeal.

YADNBU. We're not even getting a 1% cost of living this year. We get zilch. And have been turned down already for pay regrades.

However, was in our local paper that the head of the council is getting £200k bonus this year.

Nice.

YANBU my husband works in local council and he has had pretty much the same thing. When he started there three years ago there was one manager and three people on his team. Now there are two managers and my husband is the only team member - so he effectivly has two people managing him and he is doing the job which used to be done by all three people, no pay increase or anything. The bosses just had a pay increase after review.

smokinaces I know exactly how you feel, it's depressing isn't it, have been looking at other jobs but there is nothing in this field thats even remotely near here, and I worked so hard to get the qualifications I needed to get this job, its what I wanted to do, I'll be gutted if I have to leave and do something else.

fernie3 its rubbish isnt it, its the old adage of too many chiefs not enough indians eh?

it is. He just had a "verbal warning" because he failed to deal with the 300 (im serious) emails he had been sent.

This is what is happening with public service jobs now. The people who do are being penalised, and the people who manage are being rewarded.

YADNBU. It is so unfair. Can you ask for a new job description to reflect your lower wages ie refuse to take all the responsibilities you where before?

its tempting, agedknees, its just an @rse cos I love my job.....

And thats where they have us, asteri. They know we love our jobs too much, and they know we would not disrupt the public.

I worked with a band 6 nurse (she was in charge on night shift). She was down banded to a band 5. She had 2 years left before she retired and was on protective pay for the 2 years, so nothing was gained except a great big slap in the face for a very experienced nurse who had worked in the NHS since she was 18.

Thinking about what I have just written, maybe her pension would have been affected ie she would get a lower pension? If that was the case I think what was done to her was disgusting.

Oh, and even though she was debanded, she still worked as a band 6 - was in charge on nights.

I'm not sure how your pension scheme works but here, because of the evaluation its based on the hightest point in your salary over you r last three years so I think (hope) she might have still been ok.

How easy would it be to figure out what your pay would be if they had assessed it on the other system, and how much the bigwigs pay would be if they had assessed it on your system?

Would be an interesting outcome to see if the a) came out the same, well can't really say much

but B) if it turns out that doing it the other way around would have meant that you all got more pay and they didn't (or even if you did and they did) then they at least have to justify why they conveniently chose the two different systems to their benefit but not the benefit of the staff. If they had done it so that everyone came out badly because of creditcrunch-itis then you could kind of see. But if they have done it to split the pot up very unfairly then definitely worth complaining about!

good luck...

Thanks zipzap, unfortunately no one will tell us how to score the job descriptions on the hays system so we cant really see.

Hmmmm. This happened to me two years ago. We all went out for Christmas lunch and got back to find messages on our computer. Mine was that my pay was going to be cut by £3,500 from 14 months from that point. April 2009. Some very shocked people walked round the office that afternoon. One of our line managers had his salary reduced by £12,500!! YES seriously. Another had his salary cut by £12,000. It was a huge shock and a case I believe of moving goal posts.

Look at it
I went for a job interview. they liked me,I liked the sound of the job, I liked what they put on the table in terms of conditions and salary and three years later someone says sorry upahill I'm changing your salary. You're not going to like it but take it or leave it!!

Really bad time because I had cut my cloth according to my salary. Other people in the youth offending team had their salaried cut by 50%. So they are expected to work out of office hours with some bloody hard nuts and have huge case loads for just over £10,000PA

asteri - even if you can't do it, if you go to an appeal then it is surely something that they should be able to do and could do (even if at a much less detailed level) for at least a couple of sample jobs from the different levels to check that there is no bias within there>

Or am I just hopelessly optimistic?

Asteri what they did with us was that they ringd internal jobs off. That meant only people who were suffering a job cut could apply for them. You could only apply for jobs that were in your pay scale as if you went higher up you would be demeemed in having a promotion (Can't be having that now can we(grin))You could even go for jobs that you weren't trained for but 'near enough ok' and the council would train you.

What happened to me was I was facing a £2,500 pay decrease. I found a job that was paying £6,000 more than the salary I was currently on. I couldn't apply becacuse although it was ringed it was better paid. I had to sit it out and wait until nobody applied then went for it. Consequently I am now better off but it was a stressful time.
I am sure you will get the same opportunity.

However I do understand excatly the sentiment of your OP