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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

'are WE being unreasonable?'

26 replies

cantmummyhaveabreak · 11/02/2010 13:41

to sell a collection of antique books that belonged to DH's dad?

To clarify, the house we own used to belong to DH's nanny, DH's dad bought it off her so she could move into her new flat fast in this time we arranged our own first-time-buyers mortgage, so he only owned the house for about 3 months. In that time he did a few bits of work, mostly was labour time than paying for materials sort of jobs... DH helped with all the work as we were buying it. Anyway when we came to get the paperwork for the deeds etc DH's dad had left the paperwork from his mortgage on the house in it and we found out he'd conned us out of about £25 in selling it onto us. (ie he told us we'd just pay him back what he'd spent but charged us an extra 25K for it )

So when he'd bought it, he helped his mum move out, then him and his brother (DH's uncle) cleared it out, keeping anything they wanted for memories/selling etc. Never mentioned anything about anything that was left.

One thing that was left was a set of very old childrens encyclopedia's. They've been kept on top of the DC's wardrobe for the 5 years we've lived here. Just looked them up online and they are worth a small fortune (selling for over £500 on amazon)... DH wants to sell them and pocket the cash to help pay for the flooring being replaced which has needed doing since we bought it... I also feel that if DH's dad had wanted them he'd have taken them when he cleared the house...

We know that if we said 'they are worth X amount, we wondered if it was ok to sell them or do you want them?' he'd take them and only sell them himself as thats the sort of man he is...

So my question is: are we wrong to sell them and keep the money?

OP posts:
LEMprefersdogstocats · 11/02/2010 13:50

is he still alive?

If he is still alive and doesn't want them - sell sell sell

if he has passed away and you feel no sentimental attachment to them whatsoever - sell sell sell, if you feel a tad of sentiment - maybe sell and use the money to invest in something for your children, if your DH has memories of them - keep them

LaurieFairyCake · 11/02/2010 13:51

Not legally wrong, they have been left behind.

Pretty about him conning you both out of 25k - did you still get a good deal? Has this been mentioned to him? Was it his inheritance that his nanny said he could have and he 'made' it when he passed it on?

LEMprefersdogstocats · 11/02/2010 13:53

LEM makes mental note to read thread properly

Did you get the house at a bargain price, despite the extra 25k?

Do you have a good relationship with him?

me? I'd sell them!

zipzap · 11/02/2010 13:57

Have you found anything else that has been left behind that you could ask them if they wanted - mention that you assume that they have taken everything they want. And then if they say anything later on you can just say that they had said you could have the stuff left behind. But wouldn't ever mention it in front of them if you do manage to sell them for £500 - he might have cadged you out of £25k but you can bet he will be super pissed off about £500 and not see your point of view.

Have you actually asked why he charged you £25K more than he said he was going to? (given he said you were going to pay what he did)

You could wait until the details show up on something like nethouseprices or on rightmove as properties sold in the area and say you were checking to see that your sale details were on there correctly when you were horrified to see what he had paid was much less than you... Or are you in contact with his nanny to bring it up in conversation with her?

Original poster
cantmummyhaveabreak · 11/02/2010 13:58

Not inheritance as he pocketed all the money himself, his nanny isn't aware we paid more than she sold for.

He is still alive, but we only ever see him when he wants something, ie DC's only ever get a card in the post on their bdays, and at xmas we get calls asking when we are visiting them.... basically we see him 2/3 times a year when we go out of our way to do something for him really. His dad passes our house twice a day to get to work and NEVER drops in.

DH has no attachment to them as he never even knew they existed till we bought the house and we found them in one of the bedrooms.

I'm gathering he doesn't want them as he cleared the house of everything else worth any money... maybe he didn't think these were worth anything...

Putting the money to doing the floor would benefit us as a whole family as it's a big chunk of money we're having to save, and it'd take us a couple of extra months to save that amount, and it means that the DC's will get their own rooms faster from spending it on the house...

However, i feel a tad guilty selling them on them, i shouldn't after what he's taken from us really, but i think i'm too honest to not feel a tad guilty. DH doesn't feel in any way bad about selling them...

OP posts:
Original poster
cantmummyhaveabreak · 11/02/2010 14:01

zipzap- We haven't asked him about the extra £25k... we took it as a knock and learnt from it, i mean we got the house less than market value, but after what we still have to spend to get it up to selling quality we stand to make no profit in selling... so not really a bargain, and because we bought through family we trusted him at the time. We'd never done the whole buying thing before and thought it'd be so easy to do it up... not so easy when we've accumulated 2 DD's since then!!

OP posts:
sb6699 · 11/02/2010 14:06

Have you actually asked him about the extra £25K?

Given his past behaviour I would sell them tbh - he wasnt worried about you losing out on £25K so you shouldnt be worried about him losing £500.

LEMprefersdogstocats · 11/02/2010 14:16

I dont think there is anything intrinsically wrong with him charging an extra 25k for the house. You still got a house for, as you say, under the market value - i would have been very grateful for that. But of course, what makes his behaviour wrong is that he did this without telling you and that was shitty.

Was he maybe hard up and needed a bail out? Still should have been honest with you about it.

See, i couldnt sit on it - i would have to ask, especially as its not a close relationship - could there be a mistake?

Sell the books, don't feel bad - enjoy your new floor

Money is the root of all evil is what my old dad used to say - ime, he is right

rmears · 11/02/2010 14:25

Why feel guilty? he didn't when he conned you?
Sell them and get the flooring done, he has obviously forgotten that they are there and he need never know. I know it is a little dishonest, but it will make your life better and won't change his life in any way. Enjoy

Original poster
cantmummyhaveabreak · 11/02/2010 14:25

LEM- i wouldn't have been bothered about the 25k if we'd been pre-warned. BUT, we may have bought a house elsewhere and got a better spec inside the house. Instead we got the worst house in a good street thinking it was a bonus for when we sell, but with everything that is wrong we wont make a penny, i'd have rather spent top dollar and got a house we could actually live in properly, not floors that could collapse at any time (thought if it did then insurance would cover it i suppose) but as it stands we have to pay for everything.

I dont want to ask FIl as i honestly wouldn't know how to bring it up, and DH is also not very confrontational about it... He wasn't hard up at the time either, he owned 3 pubs, other bussinesses etc. He's always been money hungry and thats what split him and DH's mum up. So he's been the same for 26+ years, he's not going to change now.

I think we will most likely sell the books and just not say anything. I just couldn't decide if it was wrong to pocket the cash...

OP posts:
LEMprefersdogstocats · 11/02/2010 14:32

definately not wrong to pocket the cash - and i agree with you over the 25k.

Original poster
cantmummyhaveabreak · 11/02/2010 14:36

Well i think we'll be looking for a local dealer... and sorting the builder coming sooner than we thought!! wuhoo!! Who'd have thought a grown woman could get so excited over a new concrete floor!!??

OP posts:
cat64 · 11/02/2010 14:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

shockers · 11/02/2010 14:37

If he asks about them, say you gave them to 'charity'!

Original poster
cantmummyhaveabreak · 11/02/2010 14:41

shockers-

cat- thats kinda my thinking, he had 3 months of seeing them in the house and not taking them... so he mustn't have wanted them. We may have thrown them tbh- we've kept them wondering if DH's dad would want them, but never mentioned them as it's so rare we see him there's always other things to talk about.

OP posts:
insertexpletive · 11/02/2010 18:16

Keep in mind that the mortgage may not be what he paid for the house.

Did he provide the bank with a deposit?

shockers · 12/02/2010 14:09

Good point insert.

sparechange · 12/02/2010 14:47

I'd sell them...
If he ever asks, you either plead ignorance or 'oh those dusty old things? They were so old and out of date as encylcopedias, we thought they'd be no use to DCs and binned them/gave them to the charity shop'

Re the £25k - how much was the stamp duty and legal costs for the house?
He'd have paid both, even though he only owned the house for a short space of time

(although my back of the beermat maths seem to show that to incur £25k of stamp duty, legal costs and moving costs, the house would have to be worth about £550k...)

heQet · 12/02/2010 17:47

I'd sell them without a thought.

ConnieComplaint · 12/02/2010 17:55

Sell sell sell!!! and keep schtum.

Original poster
cantmummyhaveabreak · 13/02/2010 15:20

spare change- no stamp duty was paid, and we covered all his solicitors costs anyway on our credit cards at the time... aswell as our own costs too!! AND while he 'owned' the house we also covered his payments on the mortgage he got to cover it... the paperwork showed the 'sale amount' and it was a 100% mortgage at the time... We were well and truely done over

OP posts:
roulade · 13/02/2010 17:59

Well tbh if you've had them for over five years I guess he left them for you to dispose of!

UndomesticHousewife · 13/02/2010 18:12

Don't feel guilty at all, for a start if he wanted them he'd have taken them when he cleared the house. They've been in your house for so long that he doesn't even remember it them probably.

But if he was a nice man and a good father obviously the answer would be to give them back to him, but as it stands I'd have no qualms in selling and keeping the money.

In fact I'd drop into the conversation that you paid for the floor with the proceeds of the sale of 'some old books we found lying around the house', if he says anything, tell him that you're sure he wouldn't mind 'giving' you that money seeing as he ripped you off with the sale of the house.

Not a nice thing for a father to do to his son, you'd have thought he'd want to help him not make a tidy profit from him.

iggi999 · 13/02/2010 21:38

Every time I've moved house I've left a few things behind. Perhaps new owners discover they could make some money by selling some of them, cash in the attic style. I have no claim whatsoever to that money, it wasn't an accident, I had chance to take them and chose not to.
Sell your books, buy your floor, don't waste time on guilt as, in this case, it is just not justified!

brightspark2 · 13/02/2010 21:54

They've been there for longer than is a reasonable time what you get for them is storage fees!

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