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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

bad nhs direct advice?

69 replies

bridewolf · 10/02/2010 08:27

i rang nhs direct to get some advice on my IgE allergic son.

after brief chat to nurse he asked if i had ever tried homeopathy to cure his allergies.

i was pretty shocked, has anyone else ever got this sort of advice from nhs direct?

OP posts:
LaurieFairyCake · 10/02/2010 08:31

We had this two weeks ago.

Some people believe in the efficacy of it, some people believe it is the placebo effect, some believe it is bollocks.

Whichever it is it doesn't matter as the NHS certainly believe in the placebo effect (and possibly the efficacy of it as there is an NHS homeopathic hospital).

So it may or may not work and because of the above I am not surprised the NHS advisory service asked if you had tried it.

pjmama · 10/02/2010 08:51

This type of treatment can be effective for some people, what's wrong with suggesting different approaches? I'd rather the NHS was open minded about alternative medicine instead of insisting that their way is the only way.

kinnies · 10/02/2010 09:08

If I were having a heart attack, I dont think homeopathy would be much help.
I know the pos son was not having a heart attack, but the theory is the same.

MegSophandEmma · 10/02/2010 09:12

I'm sure if Op or anyone rang up having a heart attack the nurse wouldn't have advised homeopathy. Thats like them suggesting you take paracetomol for a heart attck. It wouldn't happen.

LazyJourno · 10/02/2010 09:16

I don't think YABU. It's hardly appropriate advice for NHS direct... which you call when there's a problem that needs treating straight away. All a bit woo.

But then I'd have been the same if she told me she believed in fairies and would pray to them for you to get better.

Sassybeast · 10/02/2010 09:34

I'm not sure what the issue is - she was giving you advice, not holding a gun to your head ? Homeopathy and the NHS are not mutually exclusive. but NHS direct call handlers are not experts on allergies. Perhaps she was just trying to be 'helpful' ?

www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Homeopathy/Pages/Introduction.aspx

beammeupscotty · 10/02/2010 23:56

I am a nurse advisor at NHSDirect. Are you sure you spoke to a nurse? We only advise if the child is having current health problems. If you only wanted information it would have been a health information advisor. They are trained to look into Health issues and provide information only from designated reliable, vetted web sites/books. As a nurse I would not have a clue about such a specialist subject, and cant imagine why anyone should suggest homeopathy unless it was part of the wider enquiry into allergy treatments.

BrahmsThirdRacket · 11/02/2010 00:02

YANBU, I know the NHS is going down the shitter but I would at least expect them to suggest a course of treatment that had some basis in science. A friend of mine was offered homeopathic treatment for his sore knee (damaged playing football) a few months ago. Tch.

LetThereBeRock · 11/02/2010 00:13

YANBU.I certainly wouldn't expect to be advised to treat my child's allergies with water and sugar pills.

badgermonkey · 11/02/2010 06:44

"If you only wanted information it would have been a health information advisor. They are trained to look into Health issues and provide information only from designated reliable, vetted web sites/books."

Seriously? You might phone up NHS Direct and get someone looking on websites, ffs? What a colossal waste of everyone's time and money.

bellissima · 11/02/2010 09:08

Can I suggest that you copy this in to [email protected] ? ie Dominic Lawson, who wrote a very good article a few days ago about the ridiculous support for water homeopathy in this country.

I remember a flat mate of mine trying homeopathy for a raging ear infection some years ago. Ended up in A&E being told that she was lucky not to have damaged her hearing. Maybe these days A&E ^suggests^ homeopathic remedies!

mrsflux · 11/02/2010 09:09

TBH the nhs direct is often poop IME.

DS cried for 3hours straight and had a high temp when last ill (well this was before we diagnosed his terrible lurgy that led to a week of not eating ) anyhow i had no idea what to do as nothing would help him.
the person on the phone suggested the following

  • teething - uh no told them that he wasn't, not dribbly, not chewy etc
  • thread/ hair caught round his finger or willy!!! WTF!!!!

i'm sure there are lots of sensible, useful people on there but i think i got one of the idiots!

ImSoNotTelling · 11/02/2010 09:12

I would not be at all impressed if i went to any NHS preofessional about my childrens ezcema and they recommended homeopathy.

YANBU

ooojimaflip · 11/02/2010 09:14

I don't know what people expect from NHS Direct! There job is to advise you if you need to seek further treatment,and whether it's urgent or not.

How are they meant to know over the phone why your baby is crying? Allergies are surely an issue for the GP.

The call handlers are trained to work put if you need an ambulance or not. For everything else, ask someone qualified.

ooojimaflip · 11/02/2010 09:17

Health professionals are not guardians of rationality. They will have seen cases where Homoeopathy has worked. They may feel that in cases where they cannot offer any practical help, that at least this may work through placebo/make the patient feel better by giving them an action they can take. They are interested in making people feel better, and don't like being in a situation where there is nothing they can do.

This is why evidence based medicine has been a tough sell.

LilyBolero · 11/02/2010 09:21

Did you phone because he was having an allergic reaction to something there and then? If so, then yanbu.

If however you phoned them to discuss an on-going condition (ie the allergy in general, rather than a reaction that was happening then) then yabu - that wouldn't be a good use of their time.

Fwiw I've always found them to be spot on, have always given appropriate advice, and not been hesitant to suggest A&E, out of hours GP or even to send an ambulance immediately on one occasion.

LibrasBiscuitsOfFortune · 11/02/2010 09:26

"thread/ hair caught round his finger or willy!!! WTF!!!!"

Erm my DH is an A&E doc and if our child cried for a long time with no discernable reason he would always check for this - it is easy to miss and it's not like they can unwind it themselves or tell you if very young so actually it was a very sensible suggestion.

ImSoNotTelling · 11/02/2010 09:26

"They are interested in making people feel better, and don't like being in a situation where there is nothing they can do. "

This actually sounds quite dodgy to me. If people don't feel they are able to say "I'm sorry i don't know, you need to go to your doctor" and would recommend random treatments off their own bat instead, just so they felt that they were doing something.

It's something I've seen in jobs in the past - people need to be able to say they don't know if they don't know.

Also health professionals aren't guardians of rationality - that scares me too. The idea that health professionals are irrational is scary isn't it? I thought the whole point was they had studied at length, including a very large dollop of science. That these people are rational. If not you might as well go to a witch doctor.

ooojimaflip · 11/02/2010 09:36

This is why you should not give them unquestioning faith - they are as human and fallible as anyone else.

edam · 11/02/2010 09:46

Homeopathy for knee pain sounds odd but I do know there are NHS clinics that have tried acupuncture and had good results. (Obviously this is with patients who have/are also trying orthodox interventions.) And it is recommended by NICE for low back pain.

NHS Direct is a bit hit and miss IMO. "Have you tried homeopathy?" does smack of someone trying desperately to think of something from their personal experience rather than official advice. However, I do know expert nurses who sit on guideline committees and all that thing who are happy to use herbal and comp remedies where that is something the patient is interested in.

edam · 11/02/2010 09:48

Oh, and the problem with evidence based medicine is that it only goes so far. There simply isn't enough evidence/is no evidence for many interventions at the moment. Research has not yet been done/has not shown compelling results for every possible investigation or treatment for every single condition or illness.

becstarlitsea · 11/02/2010 09:57

I use homeopathy.

But YANBU - I think homeopathy should be something you choose to do yourself if you can afford it and complementary, not the same as medical treatment.
I've had some seriously duff advice from NHS Direct.
Classic, when DS had measles aged 10 months and I phoned up because I wasn't sure whether to take him to A&E when I saw the rash (he didn't need to go, he wasn't that ill in the end). NHS Direct asked if he might have been bitten by a snake... Clearly working from a dumbass flowchart with no thought at all.

So I phoned my Dad who is a GP who barked 'Measles' at me within 5 minutes. My GP disagreed. Until I caught measles, and half DSs nursery class caught measles. By which time DS was better. There is no substitute for a well-qualified experienced doctor. But of course they're expensive things, doctors.

ooojimaflip · 11/02/2010 09:58

What is the alternative to evidence based medicine then? 'Some stuff I made up'? Medics are always going to want to do something (as that is their training and why surgeons recommend surgery etc.), and to do something that works. In the absence of evidence based medicine, that becomes 'what works in my experience', which both limits it to a very small sample size and discourages that adoption of new techniques/approaches over what is currently known to work - even if they are better. It also restricts the scope to that of the individual medic. They are not necessarily going to see any side effects of their decisions down the road. All these things happen IN SPITE of medics wanting to do their best for their patients etc.

blinks · 11/02/2010 10:09

kinnies- duh. you are clearly insane if you think phoning for advice re: allergies is the same as phoning with syptoms of a heart attack.

correct me if i'm wrong OP, but you phoned for advice about allergies, not because your DC was having an active/serious reaction?

if so, what did you expect? an allergy specialist moonlighting at NHS Direct?

what other advice were you given? i'm presuming that trying homeopathy wasn't the only advice offered...

unless your son was having a serious reaction that warranted immediate medical assistance, you are being UTTERLY unreasonable to dismiss the advice you were lucky enough to receive.

ImSoNotTelling · 11/02/2010 10:14

Sorry but ROFL @ "bitten by a snake"

ooojimaflip you see i disagree there too. If in doubt and assuming no urgency, "wait and see" is a perfectly sensible response.

My dad is a GP and it's his stock phrase - lots of things get better by themselves - and they are trying to turn medics away from treating some things in favour of "wait and see" - conjunctivitis springs to mind. Latest advice is to leave it.

I would be wary of someone who felt they always had to do something, as it does not seem like a considered approach, and can do more harm than good.