to think I shouldn't have to check the housing benefit award and point out errors every time it arrives?

[ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight]

Grrrrr Aaaarrrrg

DH starts work, self employed. DS goes to nursery. This throws HB into a tailspin. Finally they send the right form for DH to fill in and ask for my payslips back to september.

When the award arrives they have counted my mileage claim as income, as well as the childcare element of WTC, as well as child benefit.

I go through and calculate myself how much our income was and also collect 5 bits of proof for them and send it off. 6 weeks later (!) they send another statement.

They have failed to take off the child benefit from the income. They have failed to count DH's earnings and they have failed to disregard the childcare element of WTC. So the benefit from sept - nov is correct, but they are still paying a wrong amount from nov - now.

They have also failed to recalculate the overpayment so I'm apparently still paying back the original (higher) amount.

The forms are sooooo unbelievably complicated that I need a lie down in a darkened room after working it all out and I flatter myself that I'm fairly intelligent and literate. I'm sure I could work out a simpler system

am sure yanbu

is this sort of thing that puts me off finding out whether am eligible for tax credits

hope you get it sorted satisfactorily

Thanks
Honestly it's hardly worth it. If we didn't need it to live on and stuff I wouldn't bother.
It really is stressing me out. 6 weeks of waiting and it's still wrong.

Would it be possible for you to visit the council office,armed with all the paper work and discuss it with a benifit officer,it might get it sorted out once and for all.

You too eh. Must be the only job where being a stupid shit is a job requirement. Every time I have to change my claim I have an MP letter ready in advance because of so much hassle. And don't come on and defend yourselves either because you screw peoples lives up

Go to the CAB first thing tomorrow. I had such trouble with my housing benefit, one phonecall from the CAB and it was sorted within 3 days

Yes I could I suppose. It might be easier. But after making myself crosseyed reading all the forms today I have made a list of what is wrong and between which dates so I think I may call them and also send it in a letter. I'm going away on tuesday for 2 weeks to the ILs so won't be around to sort it. Just hope they get it right before all my bills come out!

It's so hard when you rely on it and they don't pay for weeks. I can pay the rent and main bills from my wages and DH brings in enough for the food shop usually but he's not earning right now hence why the award keeps changing...and I have no buffer for other bills or petrol or anything in the meantime.

Working on the buffer thing BTW...have opened an ISA and got a monthly DD

We have had trouble too. They then had the cheek to send me a letter implying I couldn't read or add up. I took great pleasure in ringing them and politely pointing out that is actually them who can't find their arses with both hands

A letter from your MP usually gives them a kick up the backside. I honestly think they do it on purpose because they think people claiming benefits are somehow below them.

But, ButterPie, isn't it ridiculous that they make forms so complicated - because some people who need to use them will struggle to read/add up? I mean, if a form for, say, applying to university is quite hard to fill in, I reckon that's fair enough. But forms like housing benefit should be extra carefully designed so that they are easy for anyone who is struggling, surely?

(Whoops, just realized that looked as if I meant I was disagreeing with you, which I wasn't ... more going off a bit further into the 'how crap are these forms' issue!)

I agree entirely. Honestly, me and DP have both been to university, we have a house full of books, I studied Social Policy fgs, we should find the form easy. But still we ended up struggling. It isn't on.

I have a feeling that "the system" is badly designed for a number of reasons, and because of a number of reasons (I use "for" and "because of" deliberately).

1. The forms and software to sign on/claim/declare have to be designed, at least in part, by IT people who are separate from government or civil service. There is no culture of IT in mainstream life, and IT people can't know everything, so rely on the people instructing them. My DH is a programmer, and says frequently that it is possible to solve problems with lots of code, or with elegant code (always shorter). However, it is clear that the person has to know and understand what s/he is doing, both on the IT side and on the "content" side.

Meanwhile, the civil service people framing the project and making the specifications have to be clear and careful about it. It seems they are generally not. Why do government IT projects go over time and over budget? Yes, the IT providers could be taking the piss, but a very likely component is that those setting the specs keep changing their minds, and things keep having to be re-written.... no wonder there are bugs and everything is so complicated!

2. Transparency, about net gainers and net contributors to the budget, is politically very undesirable. On the one hand, a Government wants to look tough; but on the other hand, it cannot afford to have people living in poverty, so has to find backhanded ways of giving something out.

3. There's the cynical chestnut about pretending that help and benefits are available, but making them soooo hard to get hold of! This is like the Soviet right to buy bread at one rouble, or whatever. Bread became "available" after price controls were stopped, as price rations the ability to buy. In our system, it seems that computer access/form filling/ time to fill out the forms ration the availability of benefits.

Am I being too cynical?

Perhaps university philosophy departments should run papers on "Design of Forms". Making these into IT exercises would guarantee rigorous logic!

I meant making the philosophical exercises into IT. If the logic were flawed somewhere, the form would kick out a "wrong number". It would be useful discipline for the philosophers, save their lecturers some marking work, and might train a generation of really excellent programmers!