to consider asking for psychological help for mt (almost) 4yo DS?

[mrsmindcontrol]

DS1 is 3.11 and has been hard work in every respect since the day he was born. Every milestone has been achieved with the greatest of fuss and disturbance to everyone. He regularly tantrums to the point of loss of control (passing out/wetting himself), he is violent to his peers, staff at nursery, me, DH, DS2 etc, he deliberately flouts every instruction, he screeches for attention, he whines, he screams... you get the picture. His nursery had him assessed after complaints from staff and other parents about his violence. The SENCO said he is very bright and needs constant stimulation but could see no evidence of him having SN. He has spells (hours, sometimes days) where his behaviour is ok. Not perfect - still high maintenance but better.
As DS2 grows and we see first hand what 'normal' toddler tantrums are, it becomes more and more obvious that DS1's behaviour is not normal or typical. Several times we've thought about getting help but then have a good phase and convince ourselves that things are looking up.
Today, however, he has had me in tears all day. I am currently preg with DS3 and just cannot take any more. Should I take him to the doctor and ask for a psychological referral? Don't want him labelled but need some help.

Definitely. Trust your instincts.

I am sorry to hear you've had such a bad day.
It wouldn't hurt to speak to the doctor or health visitor about his behavioral issues, imo. You don't have to make it a big deal at this stage, but maybe put out the feelers that you might need a bit of attention from them with helping him.

I absolutely think you should go for it. You have nothing to lose. If the doctors are unhelpful you'll be where you are now and if you get something out of it then you'll think 'I wish we'd done that earlier.' Maybe think about going to see the doctor on your own so can have an uninhibited chat about what you've been going through.

Your right that it's terrible to label a young child as having something wrong with them. You should think of it as seeking help with his behaviour and trying to devise new tactics to get the best out of him. However you should express to doctors that you'd like him properly assessed to reassure you that there's nothing wrong with him.

You might also ask the nursery if they can put you in touch with anyone who might be able to help you and also give your health visitng team a ring.

If doctors try to tell you that 'everyone struggles' you could ask nursery for a letter to explain that he does need help to be the best and happiest little boy that he can be.

That said - we all do struggle and being pregnant with young children has it's bad days.

There's no harm in asking for help and making sure that you're dealing with his behaviour in a way that helps him grow out of it whilst feeling loved and reassured (which lets face it is damn difficult when they're screaming at you and trying to bite your ears off).

You'll probably go for assessments to be told that everything will turn out fine. Don't be put off by the the fact that this is mental rather than physical. When me DD was born she had a wonky head so I took her to all sorts of people just to make sure she was okay. This isn't different, make use of the local resources - family therapists or whatever to help him, just as you might take him to a physio.

My DS was like this. (Started when DD was born). After a similar day I phoned Social services and asked them to take him away. They sent a lovely social worker who gave me a book about food colourings (which helped his behaviour a bit) Got him assessed by educational psychologist and a child psychologist (sat behind mirrors and 'interacted' as a family ). They decided he was normal but needed bounderies and was very bright. All about as much help as chocolate teapot as I just wanted him taking away to save my sanity. His behaviour was awful for years and we just coped. Refuse to feel a failure as a mum as DD was complete opposite despite same genes, parenting, environment etc.

i felt very sad reading that scotty. how are things now for your dcs? for you?

thank you all for such lovely replies - its so nice to hear other people have been through this. I have beaten myself up for the past 4 years that his behaviour is all my fault but you only have to look at DS2 to see what a happy, normal, well adjusted little chap I am capable of producing!

You have my every sympathy. You must be exhausted. Plus the strain on your marriage will be significant too. I bet your DS1 gets all the attention so your DS2 gets nothing, adding to your guilt and sense of parenting inadequacy. It was the same in our house. Less so now but it's still difficult. MN helped!

Take your ds to the gp and get a referral to a paediatrician first to check his physical well being and then ask the paed to refer him to whatever services he think appropriate. It's so hard and you need help. When talking to the gp, make sure you emphasise how difficult his behaviour is and how stressed it's making you feel. My gp was just not listening until I told her ds would urinate on the sofa when I said no to more tv.

Meanwhile, I hope you can manage to stay calm, walk away and put your ds in his room to cool off. We found a zero tolerance approach at the slightest hint of a rage worked a bit. Well, in the sense we'd not be the brunt of his rage and we could keep our temper too. We'd just gently put him on his bed, tell him to come out when he was ready to say sorry and play properly, shut the door and leave him. No kind of hugs or gentle words seemed to soothe him let alone get through to him.

Just out of curiosity, how was your ds's birth?

I thought I was going to go mad with my ds1. I begged dh to take him and go and live in a flat and leave me with the other two children. That's how bad it got. Couldn't take anymore.

Then, full time school happened. DS1 is still raging, yelling and screaming but i. he's at school most of the time and ii. he's learning that behaviour will get him nowhere at school and he seems to be applying that a bit more at home.

I really hope it doesn't take as long to help you and your ds. I know how very hard life with a child like this can be.

thesecondcoming........ I guess what I am expecting them to do is to refer me to a child psychologist or some other such professional to have him assessed. Perhaps it doesn't come across as such in my original post but I am beginning to think that his behaviour goes beyond what is considered on the normal range. He is more than high-spirited or hard work; he is uncontrollable.
He may well be 'normal' and we may have to work hard to adapt our parenting style to deal with him but as a responsible and loving parent, I need to rule out psychological issues, surely?

Wow - you are going for a third! what possessed you you are clearly an optimist

Seriously though, he does sound extremely high maintenance. I don't think there's any harm in asking for help at all because clearly this is not about how you are bringing him up but about his own responses to life in general. They may be able to advise with strategies. Good luck.

WinkyWola - thankyou for your lovely post. Birth was fairly straightforward. Normal vaginal delivery- 7hr labour start to finish, non effective epidural. V hard work baby though!
I too have begged DH to take DS1 away.
We (well, I- DH is less authoritative than me) send him to his room and shut door when rages kick off but he will kick and kick the door for up to an hour before I eventually snap. What then??!

DH less authoritative? Does your ds sense this and play upon it? Are you united in your parenting of him? My ds has a divide and rule policy which has worked in the past.

If this is the case, use 'we think', 'daddy and I have decided', etc to show your absolute unity.

And he can kick on the door all he likes as long as he doesn't injure himself. Warn him before that if he kicks on the door he loses a favourite toy and he'll have to earn it back. Put the toys on a shelf where he can see them but not reach them.

If you are calm and cool (so hard), it means you're in control and you'll feel so much better about yourself as a parent when you look back over the day.

Get to your gp at once. Get your ds assessed. Get what help you can. I waited too long - ds was 4.5 years and we were so low as a family.

I also sympathise. In fact I could have pretty much written that about my DS(5). He wails, screams, and like tonight just mucks about for the hell of it, even past the point of the game isn't a game. I can't describe it. Take tonight. DD (3) was taken out of bath, DS warned it as his turn next. Given another warning that I was getting his towel. Time to get out...starts turning round and round in bath, stops when I ask (phew I think), and passes me some of the toys he has been playing with, pulls the plug... but won't get out. so I lift him out. He drags his feet, tries to get back in. flails at me (laughing all the time). Then he dashes back and forth out of his bedroom (i just put him back, and repeated instruction to get PJs on) rolls all over my bed. I eventually get him in his room and close the dr. so he bangs and screams and laughs and shrieks. ARGHHHH I let DH take over, and he was the same to him. So we just left him t it and he did eventually dress himself.

Ok this isn't that bad, but it is every day (at some point). He is well behaved at school (as far as I know), but was worse at preschool (he was labelled a bully by one mum, who helpfully warned other mums of it when DS started school...).

I have had him assessed for something else by a pead, who noted he was LIVELY. But fine...

I'm hoping it is a matter of time. He was a difficult birth, I didn't bond properly and he is nearly youngest in yr at school.

I love him but he DOES MY HEAD IN at times. Not much advice other than, you are not alone.