The MMR jab

[blackcountrywench]

AIBU to consider individual jabs instead of the single MMR? My DS is only 3 months old but dwelling on it already after scare stories from friends. I know research is stating that MMR is safe but is 3 huge doses of vaccine in one go worse than 3 separate jabs?

Nobody really knows the long-term effects of vaccinations as they have not been researched. There may be fewer incidences of some horrible diseases, which is obviously a good thing, however there are a lot more autoimmune disorders and allergies in today's society, which some people beleive may be associated with vaccination. Vaccinations may only introduce a small number of pathogens at once, however they are injected directly into the bloodstream, whereas naturally viruses would only enter the body via the nose, mouth etc., triggering the immune response much earlier.

Also whenever a possible side-effect arises after vaccination it is always dismissed as it cannot be proven that it is not a coincidence.

Claire is right: who would have thought for example, ten years ago, that Calpol used too regularly would be found to make children vulnerable to a life threatening disorder?

And yet no one is researching the long term effects of vaccinations. There's a claim of follow up, but when adverse effects are dismissed as coincidence, that claim is worthless.

OP you should be aware of this: if you give your children MMR and there is a serious reaction heaven forfend you will be abandoned, denied, scorned and left to cope alone.

Definitely personal choice. I researched for quite a while before deciding to follow my gut instinct and go with the single jabs.

Booked all three at the same time and the appointments were staggered every six weeks. We had the measles first as felt this was the most important and the rubella and mumps after. The doctor and service was great.

I'm glad we went down this route and, although we dont plan any more children, would make the same choice again.

what US case "kept the door open."?
and i maintain that most people considering single jabs do so solely because they have some lingering worry that the initial scare had some grain of truth.
if parents were so concerned about multiple vaccines, why is no one getting single jabs for all the initial baby vaccinations, only for MMR?
it's sad that so many parents still worry about this because of research that absolutely WAS discredited and clearly concocted by a self-serving charlatan.
I count myself among that number that had an almost superstitious fear about the vaccine - madness. Happily my rational side prevailed.

chandellina, i did get single baby jabs but they are not available now. I was just as worried about the 5 in 1.

it's only MMR that warrants countless threads on mumsnet - highlighting the lasting effects of the scare about one particular set of vaccines. (though I acknowledge, of course, that some people are concerned about vaccines in general.)

agree chandellina. I thought there was no smoke without fire until i did the research myself. There are so many illnesses that behave in the same way: a genetic predisposition which is, at some point, going to manifest into the illness after a minor trauma. So some people may be convinced that the MMR caused their child's autism, but the normal presentation for autism is at 13 months, coincidentally when they get their first shot of MMR. If MMR was given at, say, 18 months, i dont believe that the association would ever have been made. The minor trauma could also be a viral infection, a fall, a cold or ironically (and this HAS been proven) measles.
Wakefield's original piece showed a huge difference in the time for the 'effect' to take place. IIRC one parent said within 12 hours, another in 2 or 3 weeks. Now, reconsider again that autistic children present at 13months and the assertions made by wakefield really do look coincidental.

To the OP: you have to do wha't best for your child, but i would not leave my child unvaccinated, especially if you live in an urban environment. My DD had the MMR as will my next baby

Please can somebody answer these questions? Firstly, is it possible in the UK to get immunity tested prior to MMR booster? Secondly, is it necessary to get booster after singles? Thirdly, if singles are given at early age, do you think it safer to give MMR at pre-school booster age.

It's a massive positive that singles are available, it is not only 'scared'people from the Wakefield days (though I am not against him myself) choosing singles but others- as someonoe with 2 asd kids I simply was going to exclude anything and everything possible to try and help him not develop the same SN (ds2 also has realted SEN).

DH is far more adament than me that MMR was to blame, I am siting firmly on the fence, but choice is a positive,if we didn't have it more would choose nothing at all.

I would echo the genralcry toread everything- anti MMR sites, Bad Science whatever. An informeddecision is always right in case something goes wrong - failure to 'take',allergy whatever

Frogety

Yes

yes

Pleading amendment

The problem with the singles for me was, its still giving your child the vaccinations, its lots more vaccinations, there is little research into how they effect children as they will all be given at different times and in different orders, which do you have first??? The list for me went on so I went with the MMR in the end.

I'd have definitely gone for single baby jabs had I known at the time that the NHS was merrily injecting newborn babies with mercury. (Thankfully now removed from the baby jabs.)

There was a theory that it was the combination of thimerosal (spelling varies) in the baby jabs + later MMR that might create a risk in a tiny subset of autistic children. Not sure what's happpened with that.

I'm not an 'all doctors are conspiring to kill us' nutter. In fact when ds was a baby I was working for a company which published expert reviews of medical evidence (although not in that department, a related one) and asked their researchers for advice. I looked at DTB and Cochrane and every reputable source I could. Both DTB and Cochrane said, roughly: 'MMR is safe as far as we can tell but the safety studies are not good enough'. So I paid for singles (mumps was available at the time, and I made sure ds had rubella as I wouldn't want him infecting a pregnant woman on my conscience). I'm happy wtih that decision for my child.

(I let him have the MMR pre-school booster later on as by that age I was reassured that he didn't have autism or any predisposition to auto-immune disease.)

Thing is, as far as I'm aware, no-one has ever properly tested the hypothesis that MMR was linked to autism in a tiny sub-set of autistic children. They were scared off by what happened to Wakefield or couldn't get the funding. None of the studies done since are actually designed to test that theory. Epidemiology is all well and good but it tells you about the population, not the tiny percentage of autistic children and the even more tiny subset with gut disorders & auto-immune disease in the family and regression immediately after MMR. (However, I haven't looked into it in any depth for a while, if that work has been done am happy to hear about it.)

My oldest dc had all jabs as a baby(including BCG at 6 weeks - there was a TB scare where we lived at the time) after MMR we got him home and he started really screaming, knees up etc in a way we had never seen before. Took him to hospital and admitting nurse said it was definitely a reaction to the jab. He was kept in overnight for observation, next day we were told it was 'purely coincidental' and nothing to worry about. Fortunately he hasn't suffered any other side effects since. When he was given the MMR I was told that he now had immunity for life. When he was 5 I got a letter from school saying that all the kids were getting a booster. I wanted to know how his lifetime of immunity had expired after only 4 years, I was the only parent in the school who said 'no' to it.

Second child has not had any jabs, they are not compulsory and I have a huge file of newspaper cuttings saved over years on why I chose not to have her immunised. I feel that the herd thing (if not enough childeren are vaccinated these diseases will become epidemic -)is pure brainwashing and have questions about the drug companies and who is making money out of our healthy children being injected with stuff. Oops, I feel a rant coming on...

I gave my son single injections but now cannot get the mumps one. Also my doctor won't give him the pre school booster of the MMR as we initially ignored his advice to have the MMR.

Thanks for all your responses - really useful. Just to say that absolutely intend to make sure my son is vaccinated - if the choice was MMR or nothing then would definitely go for MMR.
Sorry for starting the discussion here and not health - I'm new to the site but will get used to it! I'll post any further stuff under the vaccinations section.

Goodenufparent how do you then explain the reappearance of measles since the scare? Do you think that has been invented by brainwashing doctors and drug companies?

My understanding of boosters is that in some children the MMRdoesn't 'take' so the booster picks up those: there is an alternative of a test forimmunity peoplecan access,though not sure where.

I really wrestledwith the booster.DS3 lost alllanguage and regressed after MMR.Ian'tprove causality,even tomyself,aswe have another child with ASD, one with related SEN and it is visihble in the wholefamily however I trigger theory doesn't need a standalone cause anyway.

So I didn't put ds3 in for the booster, he had late MMR anyway for various reasons (mainly we mojved and it took us that long to get in the system) so I understand that he is more likely immune that other children.

When he started school we began to get letters via the school about DS3's immune status. Often. The schoolobviosuly knew becuase he was the ASD child in their care. Then the mother of a child with cancer approached us and asked us to get him immunised.Who on earth gave her the information I do not know.

Thankfully ds3 transferred to an SNU soon after and that was that, however whilst i'd quite have understtod had the Mumof the cancer child taken a swing at me (she didn't,was very 'oplease would you consider') apart from someone whose child's life is directly under threat, I would expect people to have empathy with usm if not agree. I've beena ccused of being rabidly anti vaccination (so how come he had the MMR, as did my older boys at all,then?) and a risk- in fact I understand the chances of him being immune through first MMR at a later age are over 90% anyway.

DS won't be able to get mumps done becuase of the lack of vaccine, I'd be a fool not to get rubella done as my own Mum lost my sibling through forced termination due to rubella damage. it wold ahve been done already had it nod been private access only,, but we're having to save as we did for the measles. Even giving him the measles jab was a heart rending decision for us, we had to re make the appt in fact as we were too petrified to go. We did it for the benefit of others really. Does he have ASD? Not autism no,and no regression as yet,maybe AS- we'll see.

I am no expert on Wakefield but I know a lot of his work was mis-reported and his work on sub-groups deserves to be investigated properly. I know alot of the reporting of what he is supposed ot have done bears littlerelation to what he seems to actually have done,both good and alledgedly dubious. People I know who know him talk of him with admitration and of the sunsequent furore with disgust. I do know that we as afamily potentially fit the sub group theory though and my first job was toprotect my boys as best I could (so no MMR), my second to protect others (single).

We opted for single vaccines for both dcs. This was for a specific reason. My family on both sides have various bowel disorders, meaning my genes are more than likely susceptible, and likely to be passed on to dcs. One under-reported issue regarding the MMR scare was that the children also had unidentified bowel disorders as well as autism.

I didn't want to take the chance that a susceptibility could be triggered into a full-blown bowel disorder if the dcs had MMR. My DP felt the same way.

In fact I feel I made the right decision for the dcs, as my son does have a mild bowel problem that thankfully he is now growing out of.

The only problem is the mumps. However, mumps caught wild confers a lifelong immunity. The MMR lasts for about 15 years, which is why it is now very common for mumps outbreaks to crop up in University students.

The most dangerous time for children to catch mumps, according to the doctor who gave the single jabs (and his clinic plowed all profits into research) is during puberty. I am now looking at MMR as the dcs reach puberty, as their immune systems will be much more mature and able to cope, simply to have the Mumps portion.

ILovePlaying that is how I understandit WRT mumpsalso

I would prefer ds4 catches wild mumps,not risk free but as long as it is before puberty relatively so.

if he has not done so by puberty Dh and I willsitdown and discuss very carefully, we would prfer to travel abroad to get a single jab than give MMR but that is 10 years off and we will see what is out there then.

We were worried about the combined MMR and found a doctor who agreed to adminster the 3 separately. Before we got round to doing that our DS was diagnosed with autism, so we decided that we wouldn't have the MMR at all, in case it set him back. A few years later there was a big Measles scare, and we swallowed hard and had both our children MMR'd, and nothing happened to either of them. Both are now diagnosed autistic and both had the MMR very late and they are completely the same now as they were before the MMR jab. This was several years ago, so I can confidently assert they did not become autistic, or more autistic as a result of having the jab. Small sample I know, but I hope of some reassurance to you.