to be hacked off with this stereotype, esp coming from the police

[becstarlitsea]

Stereotype in question - that teenage boys are criminals, that crime committed is done by 'kids', that any boy in possession of a hooded sweatshirt is a suspect.

Firstly the flat downstairs was broken into. Our neighbours told us that the police had told them it was likely to be 'kids'. The evidence for this seems scanty - it's not like the burglars left behind a set of crayons and a half finished juice box. It was a well-planned robbery, done in under 10 minutes while I was upstairs and didn't hear a thing.

Then our door was damaged in an attempted break in. The SOCO told me that I shouldn't worry as it was likely to be 'kids'.

Then last night at 2am I saw a group of five men in their mid-twenties checking how best to get over the fences of the block of flats next doors and ours and another at the back. They were a well-organised group - one checking one fence, one checking another, one of them clearly in charge telling them where to go next, pointing different blocks etc. When I reported it to the police the operator kept saying 'youths' (I'd described them as men) 'So did you see what colour these youths were?''. She was clearly used to people phoning up saying 'There is a black teenager in a hoodie standing outside our flats. Kindly arrest him immediately as he's bound to be up to no good.'

Okay, I'm so cross I need to shout. A LOT OF CRIME IS COMMITTED BY WHITE ADULTS. I shouldn't need to keep reiterating that they were white and adult over and over again to get it through to the police. And...
NOT ALL TEENAGE BOYS ARE CRIMINALS. In fact I don't believe that the percentage of teenagers who commit serious crime is higher than the percentage of adults.

It pisses me off that the minute my DS's voice breaks he'll be considered 'threatening' if he walks home from football practice with a couple of his mates.

Am venting. Bah!

I absolutely hate this.

Local authorities and safer neighbourhood teams spend millions on "anti-social behaviour" and millions more devising strategies around it, and I have to say much of the officer time is spent pandering to prejudices like this. It institutionalises fear and is deeply "anti-social" in itself.

Not sure where the black white bit came into it in this case but yes teens do get a bad press

I'm really complaining about the stereotype of all teenage boys, but I did have to keep reiterating that they were white as well - having described them as white eastern european men I was asked 'So did you see what colour these youths were?''

I had to report something to the Police and their first question was 'were they black or white?' . i was a bit and being me i asked them why this question?
Their response was that it is only to describe the person in the same way that they could ask me 'was he tall?'.

But it still doesn't ring ok to me...

YANBU.

Their forced perceptions (I'd say misconception but it's intentional!) aren't restricted to 'hoodies' though.

Their attitudes can actively encourage an attitude of near mass hysteria towards any given sect. While they aid in systematically fragmenting society, we each fall into a minority and are therefore more easy to 'control'.

The System at it's 'best'. Divide and rule

The Hippies

The Rastas

The Skinheads

The Immigrants

The Hoodies

The Youth

Many etc's...

All just people!

Well to play Devil's advocate a bit here, I think the telephone operative was probably working from a list of scripted questions, and to take details of a suspect, the easiest and most obvious thing to spot about someone (perhaps after their gender, but even then, only perhaps) is their colour. She asked you if you saw what colour they were. She didn't say 'Were they black?'

It's a shame that some residential areas suffer from such high levels of anti-social behaviour, vandalism and petty crime by bored kids/youths that the police's instinct is to assume that any crime is for those reasons, rather than being treated as a bona-fide planned burglary by a career burglar. The other problem with the colour thing is that to whizz round in a squad car, and apprehend and question a group of white adult males about their intentions whilst they were hanging around looking suspicious, is nowhere near as fraught with awkward and delicate 'issues' as doing the same would be with a group of bored black teenagers. I guess they just want to know where they stand before they decide to act, or not.

of course they have to ask what colour they are for god's sake - otherwise how the hell do they know who they're looking for?

when i was mugged a couple of years ago they asked: colour, age, height, clothing. Then they immediately radioed a description to mobile units.

Race is relevant to description.

I think the OP has a point. But a disproportionately large amount of burglary type crime IS committed by young men aged between 15 - 25.

It is very sad, though, that young men of this age are automatically seen as threatening. I dont think the police attitude is the problem, it is a symptom of the real problem.

The real problem is the breakdown of society, the general lack of respect and belonging, and the very high crime levels.
I dont think that young men are seen as a threat in germany in the same way. But here, you get posters on the tube urging everyone to pay for their tickets, or intervene if they see a violent attack, and young men are often featured in positive roles.

Maybe you have to experience their attempts to pigeon-hole to appreciate how frustrating it can be.
I've had conversations with them where I felt as though I might have been talking in another language.

Writing peoples statements for them. That's another thing that irks. They maintain absolute control over what is said and how. Ridiculous!

Agree that race is relevant in descriptions - as would be the fact the suspect was very short, had long blonde hair or whatever else.

But yes, the assumption that all teenage males are up to no good does annoy me. When DS1 was helpful and polite to our elderly neighbour she reacted with complete astonishment - like it just hadn't occurred to her that a teenage boy could be pleasant.

Where I work (homeless day centre) the clients quite understandably have real issues with the police, especially our so called 'homeless police co-ordinator'. he really is a prat. We have a brilliant little booklet which outlines the rights of the police - ie: you cannot be stopped and questioned just for 'looking wierd'. Said police chap hates us for getting that out to everyone

That wasn't aimed at anyone btw, just venting

And the reason the stereotype of the hooded teenager has come about is NOT because all teenagers who wear hoods are criminals, but because the overwhelming majority of teenagers involved in criminal/anti-social activities DO wear them. And not just any hooded top either. Most teenage 'tribe' fashions subscribe to hooded tops of some sort, to some degree or other, but the anti-social/criminal/violent groups seem to have a particular uniform of choice. I refuse point blank to let my son wear a cap with a hood over it, or a coat that allows him to pull a drawstring to obscure his face, simply beacuse I don't want people to look at him and make a visual connection to anti-social/criminal teenagers, not because I think wearing them will turn him into one!

I find it sad that peoples freedom of expression regarding what they wear is limited by a potential visual connection.

The limitations of sterotyping would be released somewhat by people continuing to wear what they want and behaving like a healthy part of society to dispell such myths. Eventually.

It is sad. But it's a fact of life. We may not like stereotypes but the uncomfortable truth is that they exist for a reason. Not everyone conforms to them obviously, but enough do to perpetuate them. I think some stereotypes (particularly where style of dress is concerned) are just plain wrong though. Most old ladies would not want to meet a youth in a dark alley who had long dyed black hair, black eyeliner, big black boots, multiple piercings and loads of tattoos, but statistically he's probably less likely to commit a crime against her than than someone looking 'smart' with short neat hair and designer brand clothing. Serious football hooligans and serial pub-brawlers are a good example of this. They tend to dress like someone your granny would think was a respectable boy! It can be a very subtle thing.

Peoples ability to wear what they want has always been restricted by societys taboos though. Try wearing studded leather jacket, skinhead hair, nose rings etc and watch peoples reactions.

Its just sad that something as small and ordinary and practical as a hooded top, or a headscarf can get this reaction.

My teenage son wears a hoodie because he has Asperger's syndrome and can rarely cope in public if people look at him.

Sad to think that his coping mechanism will automatically mean he looks 'suspicious'.

I would imagine a lot of teens are self conscious about their appearance, and hide behind hoodies, even if they arent aspergers.

My elder ds favours them, he is too small to look threatening yet, but it is a shyness thing, I think.

What's 'skinhead hair' ?

I've had dreads, I'm fully aware of other peoples issues that doesn't mean I'd allow them to dictate what I can/can't or should/shouldn't look 'like'. In fact, quite the opposite!

I once saw a burglary from a distance, not close enough to recognise the perpetator, rang the police and they got there fairly quickly. Listened to my evidence (which did not involve a description) and then trawled the neighbourhood. Came back some time later hauling a man between them whom I was meant to identify. I kept saying I had no idea and I didn't recognise him at all. To which the police rejoinder was "oh yes, of course it's him; he's been in trouble before". So they expected me to go into court and swear that I recognised someone I had emphatically said I did not recognise simply because a policeman told me he had been in trouble before

It is a fashion thing

People can deny it all they want but it is an intimidating look, especially when coupled with scarves wrapped around the mouth/cheeks/neck (v popular around here)

Why on earth wouldn't they ask what colour a suspect was, no point in stopping every 6ft, well built bloke in a gray top you come across if you have already been told that he is black/white/Asian

OP I should imagine that the police 'know' the difference between crime committed by kids and crime committed by adults.

A group of kids breaking into a house would be more likely to vandalise/graffiti/steal money whereas an adult is more likely to go for car keys, high value items and not mess around spraying the walls

Ecomouse, you are kidding yourself if you think that other people dont dictate every single thing you wear.

We all want to blend in, that's why we don't go around in animal skins, or crinolines.