To remove my son from school tomorrow during a spelling test?

[BaronessBarbaraKingstanding]

DS2 in yr 2. Struggling, behind peers in literacy, and most areas actually, has IEP which school is not consistently implementing, last term had 'assesment week' and told me every day he couldn't do the tests and his 'heart was thumping'.

Has spelling tests every week, we spend ages learning them he usally gets 7/8 but never gets a merit mark despite all efforts. spellings are not differentiated. have discussed this with class teacher, nothing changed.

this week he's given spellings which are really hard for him (daughter, taught etc) which would take him an age to learn and he's only probably get half right.

So I sent in a note at the start of the week saying I had a dilemma should we spend so much time on these, taking away from time on reading practise, but I didn't want to then risk him failing yet another test! Asking class teacher what she thought i should do.

I've had no response.

we've practised 5/10 spellings but the test is tomoorrwo and we've not started the other 5. i've phoned twice today to ask for a response abot the spllings tomorrwo and heard nothing.

last night my DS told me he is the 'rubbishist' in his class.

So, I am seriously pissed off.

I want to write a note saying Ds will not be in tomorrw morning until aftre spelling test as I do not wish him to be subjected to yet more failure and no one has responede to my query reagrding this.

this is more a WWYD than an AIBU I think.

SE13 you arwe right, I know that now and I've learnt the hard way.

We honestly thought we were doing the best we could by getting them into a high acheiving school with fantastic OFSTED.

itis also our nearest school, but it's so oversubscribed that doesnt mean you'll get in. I remember celebrating the night we were told we had a place. Schmucks.

Don't beat yourself up over it BBK, be pleased that you've realised before it's too late and that you're confident enough to do something about it. Not everyone is strong enough to remove their children from the 'outstanding for Ofsted but inappropriate for my child' schools. Your son will thrive once he's happy at school and with some decent teaching may well be able to tackle spelling the very words he dreads at the moment.

Once you've secured a place at a new school you may want to consider making a complaint about the current school to Ofsted... every school should be differentiating work and striving to meet the outcomes of 'Every Child Matters'. Clearly a school that is so busy being outstanding that it is apparently unprepared to accommodate a child's learning needs isn't achieving either of these things.

With my year 3's and year 4's we recorded the scores and if they got the same as the previous week or they had improved then they would get a housepoint. (personally a 'well' done would have sufficed but the school loved dishing out housepoints)

My son gets anything from 2-9 out of 9 each week. If I ask him what he's got he doesn't generally know (or care) he's in group 2 of 3 groups. Asking a child to be perfect for 3 weeks running to get the aknowledgement of a sticker (I hate stickers btw so I am biased) is unobtainable for many children. The school needs to aknowledge effort relative to each child's ability.

I am assuming children are given stickers to wear on their jumpers after the test which makes your child feel awful for the entire day...

As a teacher I'd be very concerned if a parent told me that their child was this stressed by spellings. A teacher that only gives merits to children who get 10/10 seems to not have any concern for the individual child at all. I must admit that I don't differentiate my spellings for year six in that I use the CGP revision book. However, there are a range words each week form easy to difficult and I praise each and every children on their achievement for them. So if a very able child gets 5/10 they get a bollocking encouragement to learn them for next week. Equally, if a child has tried really hard and gets 3/10, they get a certificate in assembly!

If you're getting no joy from the teacher, I would go to the head. I would think very carefully before considering moving schools at this point. First I'd ask the questions - how are the head and SENCO dealing with this? (If they seem supportive then good - if not, can you cope with this for another 4 and a half years?). What is the year 3 teacher like? (no guarantee they'll still be teaching year 3 next year but they may well be). The point I'm trying to get to is this:

If it's just this teacher that is useless then it may be worth just sticking it out for the remainder of the year - praising your child in all he does, etc. If the headteacher and SENCO seem to have your child's best interest at heart then it's only for another few months and not worth the disruption to year child. After all, he will be in primary school for 7 years which usually = 7 teachers, so is bound to come across a crap teacher in that time. Not to mention the number of teachers he'll have at secondary school.

However, if the head and SENCO also seem to not take an interest (which unfortunately can be the case in an 'outstanding school if they are very focused on just getting result/upholding appearances/etc) then I would seriously consider moving schools.

You many not get this teacher to change their ways but equally, another teacher may be just as bad or worse!

sorry for typos - bad day = a few vodkas!

children = child
year = your

hi, when my ds1 was in year one depending on which ability group they were in determined what type of spellings they had. So the bottom group got 2 spellings (eg cat, dog), the nest group got 4 (cat, dog, head, hand), next group got 6 (cat, dog etc), next group got 8. Then whoever got them all correct in any group would be rewarded.

In yr2 they have changed the whole school system to a new way. Starting in reception class they will be given a sheet with 15 words on it when they can read and spell them they get the next sheet - and so on. This is so much better as each child can work at their own pace.

Also - I know a school that banned spelling tests as children were put under so much pressure by parents! Childen being pysically sick in the morning. Children not being greeted with "How was your day?" but "What did you get in your spelling test? 9/10? WHY? WHAT DID YOU GET WRONG?" and children being told they're get £1 for 10/10 and £1 taken out of their money box for anything less! Crazy!

It seems there's an awful lot of learning spellings to get something, a sticker, a certificate or something. Children could be thinking that's the point of spelling tests -to get a reward and not to try to learn how to spell new words.

Spelling tests are a crock of shite anyway, children learn to spell the words for one day but this isn't, generally, carried through into their written work and these tests are used as another way to measure the children in a totally meaningless way. What does it matter if child x gets 9/10 when they don't spell high frequency words properly by year six? Secondary school teacher friends of mine are fed up with correcting basic spelling mistakes.

We are teaching children to be competetive in a ridiculous situation and that getting a certificate/sticker/housepoint is the point of learning spellings. I do agree that children do need to experience failure but this school accentuates the 10/10 scores by only giving rewards when they are achieved. Of course children are going to feel crap when they don't, and never will, achieve this.

Sorry for the hijak

Don't like to argue with you muppergirl but spelling and times table tests are actually the only tests (at primary level) that I agree with. Because we have so many different spelling rules, and exception to rules, in this stupid English language, learning spellings by the age-old 'look, cover, write, check' is actually quite effective for most children. There are always going to be children who don't learn by a certain method (i.e for every single method you could think of, there'd be a child that it doesn't work for).

It's not actually the test as such that I agree with, but without the threat of a test, most children wouldn't bother. But phonics do no work for the vast majority of words. Sow yew doo actewly hav to lern them throo repetishon and memeree!

PurpleHeffalump - I think I work at that school!
OP - please talk to the SENCo and Head before pulling your child out of the school. If your DS has low self esteem then moving schools, making new friends, new routines may not be the best thing for him.

I also agree that some Outstanding schools are like this but by the same token some SM or NTI schools are too (how did they get in that situation in the first place?).

On a practical note, perhaps you could suggest that the teachers marks off the 5/6/7 spellings which are easiest/most important to learn each week. Your son learns those and the teacher puts them first in the spelling test. This way the teacher only does 1 test, your son takes part, but nobody other than the the two of them needs to know so no self esteem issues and a sticker can be allocated for full marks. I've done this with classes in the past where children want to learn the class spellings and don't want a different list to the others.

I love we're discussing spelling and someone responds to me and they spell my name wrong!!

I totally agree with a spelling focus and the learning of the 'spelling rules' which you then use to challenge your brighter children to come up with the inevitable many exceptions there are.

I don't agree with that being the only way in which to introduce/test/celebrate spelling. Why not ask them to show usage of their spellings in a written context? Why not let them highlight where they have used some of their spellings in thier work that week? Much more useful but would need more time which schools can't spare. Quicker to test, get a measurable number in which to compare with previous scores which then dictact how much effort the child put in.

Oops! - I did explain about the vodkas!

Well I think we're all agreed that the teacher in this case is out of order. Of cause spelling tests shouldn't be held up to show a child's worth. But M-U-P-P-E-T-G-I-R-L (few!)I'd hope most teachers would use those methods you mention to back up spelling, but the fact remains that they still have to be learned before they can be used. How can they hightlight a word to show they've spelt it correctly if they don't know how to spell it??? And no, we don't have time to learn each spelling in school (although we do have spelling lessons based on investigating patterns and I give children some time to look over test spelling during the week). The time taken learning words at home is very valuable. However, coming back to the AIBU, the spellings MUST be suitable to that child.

ffs! highlight

Thanks

I would give the children their spellings lists and they could refer to them the same as they do 100 squares/number lines. Ds is in year 1 and he could do that easily...
Interesting that you say words have to be learned before they can be used, Ds's school expected him to write though he hadn't learned how to form letters...? Are children not allowed to write 'phonetically plausible' words anymore?

Learning by rote isn't great but using and applying is. Learning spellings through using them in a meaningful way rather than testing each word in isolation would, I hope lead to longevity rather than remembering for just 1 day.

All depends on whether your focus is testing to prove knowledge/memory or wanting the children to demonstrate understanding by using words in context.

Am tied and headachy so not sure I've made my point clearly...

sorry, am certainly not tied!!! Am tired!

My son has SEN. He is not achieving level one in any of his work and he is in year 2. He cannot write or read at any real level. He does not understand what a sum is yet.

BUT he has been getting the same homework as all of his peers since being at school. We have struggled with him. He has been in tears and his self esteem has suffered.

I kept trying to explain the problem but nothing was done. I stopped doing homework with him sometime in October. Its seemed utterly ridulous that his well documented delays were being ignored.

Today he finally got some homework that is achievable.

Instead of being asked to 'write a book report using adjectives, metaphores and connecting words' he is to trace vowels and then write them. Instead of division and multiplication he is to learn to write the numbers 1 - 20.

So maybe now he can feel he is NOT stupid and CAN 'do homework'.

So I feel your pain.

I am on the ban spelling tests they're a waste of time fence.
These are my reasons:

1. As previously, mentioned it is very common for children to learn the spellings for the test, but to continue to misspell them in their written work.

2. Self esteem - why are we setting some of our most emotionally vulnerable children to fail? We should be celebrating their achievements and abilities not reenforcing the things they can't do. A core part of the EYFS is that every child is a unique child and is able to learn. This message needs to spread into KS1 and 2 and beyond.

3. Yes we don't have a phonetic written language, however, there are rules and learning these patterns in words is more benficial to children. To take the example of memory which has been phonetically written as memeree mem ory = mem memory = the combination of o and r make the or sound (born, sort etc)
   memory = y is used to reate the long e sound at the end of many words (story, plenty etc)

I feel quite passionately about this as I grew up believing myself to be a bad speller. but realised through my teacher training and then career that I was badly taught and too much emphasis had been put on learning lists of often unconnected words instead of teaching me to see the connections between word families.

I haven't read the whole thread, so I'm really sorry if I'm repeating anything.
But I wanted to give a couple of suggestions that you could take to the meeting with the head and SENCO.

1. Your son gets the same spellings as everyone else, but is only expected to learn 3 (or 5 or 7) of them. When they do the test he stops after the 3rd word. He gets a merit mark when he gets all his 3 correct.

2. Does the class have a TA? If so, your son (and anyone else of a similar level- he is probably not the only one in the class feeling rubbish) could do a separate test with the TA.

3. He has a spelling log and when he'd doing his literacy work and can't spell a word he attempts to write it in his spelling log. The teacher (or you if the log goes home) can then write the correct spelling in. When the rest of the class do the test, he practises the words in his spelling log- and gets merit marks based on this.

Agree also with Cory about boosting his self-esteem, and playing down the importance of the spelling test- spend less time on it. Also,take some time to learn spellings he can do- just 2 or 3 at a time- and give him loads of praise. I once taught a Year 4 child who really struggled with spellings- we spent a couple of weeks learning how to spell 'I', but I'll never forget his pride when he realised he could do it!

Ok, so I lied about stepping away from the thread. I completely agree with what everyone has said (although it may not seem it!). And I speak as someone who 'can't spell' although I got 10/10 for every single spelling test I ever did. As mentioned above - I learned them for the test and then promptly forgot them.

So why am I sticking up for spelling tests?...

Well, like I said, I'm not completely sticking up for the test, but more for the method of learning. But only as one method out of many to learn spellings. That is spelling lists of words combined with: lessons investigating spelling patterns/families; proof reading/self checking of work; learning phonics; etc.

I have taught many children with SEN (particularly Autism where committing spellings to memory is the only way that they can produce legible writing - phonics and spelling patterns make no sense to them.

I actually chose the CGP spelling book (don't know if any of you know it) because it groups words into spelling rules. I think that it's a much better method than just 10 random words.

However, I still maintain that there are many, many words in the English language that don't belong to families/ spelling patterns.

I think that learning spellings for a test is a valid and successful method for a lot of children. Like I said before, one method is never going to suit all children. However, I think that the way that these tests are handled is the main factor. In no way should a child feel stressed about them or feel like a failure. As a teacher, if you see that a child is not learning that way or, as BaronessBarbaraKing has found, the spellings are way too difficult, then it is your responsibility to change the method for that child.

I think you've made a good point about a few children benefiting from spelling test as part as a larger strategy to teach spelling, particularly in the case of specefic SEN such as autism purpleheffalump.

However, in my experience teaching early years and KS1 the usefulness of tests applies to a minority of children rather than the majority. I totally agree that as far as humanly possible learning should always be individualised. This can be very difficult to put into practise, but it strikes me that in the case of spellings it is actually very simple. Spellings should not be given in an undifferentiated way. And I don't believe all children should be given spellings to learn and be tested on weekly, but I would support spelling tests if that had been identified as a speceific strategy that meets the needs of a particular child or group of children.

Thanks for all your responses, there are some really helpful suggestions on here which I can use next week in my meeting with the head and SENCo.

My DS had gone in to do the test today, having spent some time learning them last night. Actually he did better than I was anticipating in learning them, so I am hoping he will do reasonably in the test. Which is all I ask for. As I feel repeatedly sittinv tests in which you know you habe performed badly is damaging for self esteem regardless of whether parents play down thier importance or not.

There is lots of research on the futility of spelling tests as an effective way to teach spelling, first reserch done over 100yrs ago and repeated recently showing that knowledge is rarely transferred to independent work and that if tests are stoppped spelling acheivement does not not dip ro change.

there are many others way to try to approach spelling.

this is a case where research does not seem to inform practsie in school, and 'common sense' seems to suggest that tests will work, and furthermore parents generally expect them, so the practsie in futilty continues.

i resent spending his precious learning time on soemthing pointless, but go along with it as I don't want him to experience failure in the tests.

thanks for all your kind thoughts. fingers crossed for him today, i'll let you know how he gets on.

This thread has been a great discussion that's made me think a lot. Thanks for that, and it hasn't turned into a bunfight!

FYI ds 1's school has a few parents that have said no to spellings at home (and reading and homework) as they believe school work should be done in school and hometime is free time.

BaronessBarbaraKingstandi... I hope you find a way round this for your Ds soon.