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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to be very shocked only 3% of unmarried parents stay together until child is 16!

671 replies

littlemoominmamma · 21/01/2010 08:02

3% is nothing!!! It is soooo sad. 1 out of every 3 couples have seperated before the child is 5yrs old

I am now glad that the tories are going to give married couples help.

OP posts:
TheHeathenOfSuburbia · 21/01/2010 10:11

You're saying the paper was misquoted to get a shock-horror headline?!

By the Daily Mail?!

I'm shocked, I tell you. Shocked.

Blackduck · 21/01/2010 10:13

Oh I'm part of the norm....we're made it to ds's 6th birthday (and rapidly approaching his 7th...)

upandrunning · 21/01/2010 10:14

so all of you who think it's bullshit

do you think cohabiting couples are as likely to stay together as married

do you think cohabiting couples with children are as likely to stay together as married

do you think cohabiting couples who get married for the tax break would get divorced anyway

do even think it's good that parents stay together, all other things being equal

oh yes -- you'd do anything, ANYTHING for your child

except get "a meaningless bit of paper"

ImSoNotTelling · 21/01/2010 10:16

Why are you assuming that all the people who think it's shit aren't married?

stillfrazzled · 21/01/2010 10:18

Like I said, upandrunning, I AM married.

It's just that my wedding ring doesn't seem to have shut down my bullsh*t detector.

upandrunning · 21/01/2010 10:20

fair points but the questions still stand, what do you think?

Allidon · 21/01/2010 10:20

I think that some co-habiting couples are not in ideal relationships, and being married would not change that, so if they got married for a tax break they would be no less likely to split up than they were before. I think other co-habiting couples are as committed to each other as married couples, so again being married would make no difference to the outcome of their relationship. I would say the majority of married couples fall into the second category which is why the outcome of married couples is better.

And yes, I would do anything for my children, but I don't feel getting married is necessary. Getting married would make no difference to them at all, it would not make my relationship with DP any less likely to fail. If I ever got married it would be for me, not for them, they have everything they need without that bit of paper.

Blackduck · 21/01/2010 10:21

upandrunning - that is just so patronising...

noddyholder · 21/01/2010 10:22

ImSO not telling I was about to post that!

posieparker · 21/01/2010 10:22

I do wonder why people don't want to be married if they are in a committed relationship. If it makes no difference and there are differences with parental rights and inheritance, why not just do it?

Blackduck · 21/01/2010 10:23

Allidon - well put....
And thanks upandrunning for implying that not being married makes me a cr*p parent

upandrunning · 21/01/2010 10:23

so why are they having children if they are in unstable relationships

what is patronising

SarahMumtoAlex · 21/01/2010 10:24

It would be great if someone could give a link to the source of stats, rather than simply asserting they are unassailable.

It seems very unlikely that you could gather accurate stats about this precisely because there is no official tracking of the relationship.

Lets assume that unmarried couples who have children list both names on the birth cert (so already we lump people who are committed to living together with people who just got pregnant but she knows his name) then the relationship breaks down - how does the state know? The figure would have to be from CSA or (which is well known to be crappy) So, without seeing the link, I'd guess its an unreliable stat.

stillfrazzled · 21/01/2010 10:25

do you think cohabiting couples are as likely to stay together as married - I believe, but I could be wrong here, that numbers suggest they are not.

do you think cohabiting couples with children are as likely to stay together as married - likewise.

BUT as PPs have said, maybe they didn't get married for a reason. Or maybe there are a lot of unhappily married couples out there 'for the sake of the kids' making EVERYONE miserable.

do you think cohabiting couples who get married for the tax break would get divorced anyway - I sincerely doubt there are enough people out there prepared to get married for a tax break to provide stats for a reasoned opinion.

do even think it's good that parents stay together, all other things being equal - If 'all things being equal' include mutually respectful and involved parenting and all parties being happy with the decision, yes. If it's one partner doing more than their fair share and living a life of quiet desperation, no. That applies to married couples or co-habitees.

I am not going to reply to your last two sentences because TBH i read them more as sniping than genuine questions.

SpottyMuldoon · 21/01/2010 10:26

We got married when I was pregnant with our second child. He still buggered off when she was 2 though.

I would love to have stayed married.

daftpunk · 21/01/2010 10:27

I think in most situations it's the man who doesn't want to get married, I'm pretty sure most women (even the women on mumsnet) would get married if the man wanted it....

TheHeathenOfSuburbia · 21/01/2010 10:28

upandrunning, I am married as it happens, but thanks for that.

I think TrillianAstra put it very succinctly;
"Encouraging people to get married doesn't necessarily make them more commmmitted. You'll just be moving the people who are going to split up anyway from the 'unmarried' to the 'married' group without changing their behaviour."

Blackduck · 21/01/2010 10:28

dp - wrong here....

olderandwider · 21/01/2010 10:30

Well said upandrunning. Baffled by the anti-marriage bias on MN (or MNetters replying to this post which may not be the same thing at all...)

Regarding Tory tax break for marriage - probably won't encourage people to marry but does send out a message that married parents are the preferred model for raising kids - not because marriage per se is better than cohabiting but because it is strongly associated with parents staying together at least until the child is 5. That means less poverty, better life chances etc. and no, I am not saying that means single parents are a bad thing, just that life, on average, is preferable for a child if his her parents are together, and marriage, like it or not (and for whatever reason) makes that more likely.

noddyholder · 21/01/2010 10:31

I don't want to get married because the vows etc aren't my bag at all and I have seen some very bad marriages(and good ones!)and it has never appealed to me.I think it is a personal thing tbh my dp has asked me a few times in the first years but now 20 yrs on we have been throgh hell and high water and are solid as a rock!I couldn't give a toss about extra money etc and we have all the legalities in place wrt money and property etc.My 2 oldest friends are both going through awful divorces atm and I am supporting them and its heartbbreaking tbh.I think some people are just influenced by their backgrounds and what is the norm in their family.My mum and sister are both divorced so the til death us do part is BS for a start.I am happy to put on a lovely outfit and have a party when a friend gets married just don't want it myself.Dp has nursed me through 2 transplants cancer and a serious heart condition and I supported him giving up drinking 17 yrs ago!My bf husband is leaving her because she lost her figure and personality(his words) after having his 5 kids There are no guarantees which is why it should be up to the individual.And some of the sweeping comments on here are insulting tbh.Oh and upandcoming very familiar posting style and new poster We aren't stupid!

wheresmypaddle · 21/01/2010 10:31

Littlemoominmamma- your comment that you find the stats shocking and sad.

You finding them shocking suggests to me that they weren't what you expected, not what your life experience or instincts would suggest. As such, maybe the reason they were not what you expected is that they are somehow not correct due to the way the data has been collected etc..

The figures do sound shocking because they are not correct- thats my opinion anyway.

hbfac · 21/01/2010 10:33

I'm married.

I believe that there is a stronger likelihood that co-habiting rather than married couples with children will split up.

I think that's multi-factorial; other posters have suggested some of these factors.

It's just I don't, and never will, believe that a woman should do anything "for her children".

I think all this talk of "supporting families" is another attack on single parents, the majority of whom are female, by another name.

There is a strong correlation between lone parents and benefits; a lot of lone parents are in receipt of benefits. Most women are economically sh*fted when they leave a marriage/relationship. That, too, is multi-factorial. But the fact that they have had dc is a huge factor in that. Work+dc is a gendered experience. Women tend to find their careers impaired after dc. That means, when they leave a relationship/marriage, they are more likely to be in need of state assistance.

This is a return to cutting the benefits budget, at the expense of women and children, done by stealth. It's not quite as obvious as "we're going to make it less attractive to take the option of sitting on your bum , on the dole, surrounded by you profuse offspring. We're going to dis-incentivise being a lone parent." But it's the same thing, by stealth.

Seriously, if a marriage/relationship is great, why would you need to pay the woman to stay in it, and (relationally,) economically penalise her for leaving?

MmeLindt · 21/01/2010 10:36

'The only statistics you can trust are those you falsified yourself.'

Winston Churchill.

The idea that any kind of government intervention, particularly financial incentive, will lead to more couples getting married is laughable.

The Germans have had a tax break for married couples for years, makes a large difference when one person works full time and the other does not work (whether there are children or not). I don't know anyone who has got married for this reason, or stayed married.

Blackduck · 21/01/2010 10:36

hbfac - good post....

littlemoominmamma · 21/01/2010 10:37

weresmypaddle - yes, I was shocked because I would not have expected it - I married after living with my husband for 7 years, we had two children by then and have had another one. We are happy and I like being married but am not pushing anyone else to marry unless they really want to.

OP posts:
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