To expect a Y4 teacher to notice if one of her pupils is ill?

[PrettyCandles]

When I picked ds1 up from school today I was quizzed (by a different member of staff) about why he had been off school all week from Tuesday last week. Because he had been ill! And I had called the school to tell them so.

When I picked ds up from school last Monday, his teacher came out with him to tell me that he was making a fuss about some missing gloves. "Having a panic attack" was how she put it. Ds was scarily pale, with shadowed eyes, he told me that he had been told off several times that day because he couldn't keep his head up and kept slumping onto his elbow on the desk, he couldn't eat his lunch because he had such a sore throat, he had bad breath. Just touching him with my hand I could tell he had a fever. When we got home I foudn he had a temperature of 39.4C. Some panic attack.

Is it too much to expect a teacher who has already had a child in her class for a term, and therefore knows him well and should recognise untypical behaviour, to notice that he is ill?

Had he actually mentioned to his teacher that he wasn't feeling well? Not eating his lunch wouldn't be noticed by his teacher, as I guess there are lunchtime assistants. As for 'untypical behaviour', how was she to know it wasn't simply that he had had a late night? I am a teacher and don't always notice if a child isn't feeling well unless they tell me. By Y4 he's quite capable of telling her.

Bear in mind she has 30 children to watch over, and maybe she felt he was just a bit under the weather, but maybe that he just had a cold and you had sent him in with it, so therefore you knew and were happy for him to be there. Also, before I had kids, I didn't know what signs to look out for with the kids in my class.

Or is this another AIBU by stealth where we then find out that the ds has SN that mean he can't tell the teacher he is ill?

I have a much older child who is having panic attacks, and half the time my only chance of distinguishing them from illness is through her telling me so.

Sorry your son is so poorly.

Agree with Galena though - I think the issue lies around whether or not he told his teacher he felt unwell.

No SN. No history of panic attacks. Bad breath = smelly breath.

Admittedly he did not tell anybody he was feeling unwell, but when one of the most active, articulate and talkative children in the class passes the day in almost complete, unresponsive silence, shouldn't that make her think that something might be wrong?

I just feel cross that (a) I could have brought him home earlier, by car instead of walking, and got him dosed-up and comfortable, and maybe he wouldn't have been ill for as long. And (b) the 'quizzing' made me feel like the school didn't believe he had been ill enough to be off school all week. Maybe if they'd realised how poorly he was on Monday - poorly enough to call me in - they would appreciate what his week had been like.

In which case, I'd say YABU. He didn't tell anyone he was feeling unwell. All children have quieter days, so maybe his teacher thought he was just having a quieter day. And if he was so poorly, surely you had some idea before school, so perhaps he shouldn't have been in, spreading his germs?

Was she using 'panic attack' in the slang sense - that he's wound himself into a bit of a state about something, rather than meaning an actual medical panic attack?

You make a judgement call as a teacher. She probably could tell that he wasn't quite himself but if he wasn't complaining about it or collapsing or doing anything dramatic, then she probably decided that while he was clearly under the weather he was ok enough to push on through to the end of the day - after all you did send him in, so she may have assumed that you were happy with him being at school when a bit under par.

He clearly deteriorated throughout the day (not implying you shouldn't have sent him, or having a dig in any way) but based on the evidence (first day back after being away unwell, obviously a bit under the weather still but mum thinks him ok to be in and he's not complaining of feeling awful) she decided he was well enough, if clearly not full of beans. A shame for your son that he was clearly became more poorly than this at some point, but I can't say I'd be in a rush to blame her in this instance.

Hope he's feeling a bit better now.

In my childrens school, most of the (late 20s, age wise and only been teaching a few years, we also have 3 NQT's)teachers havent got children of their own yet, so, in my opinion probably wouldnt know the 'classical' (temp, smelly breath etc) symptoms anyway.

Temps do spike so he may not have been hot all day, he obviously seemed better as you sent him in?

I so sympathis with you.My Y6 came out of school the other day with a temperature of 102 and looking like death warmed up.He had been shouted at all afternoon for resting his head on the table.His teacher who had been on a Fisrt aid course in school that day rang me later to say that she had called into the classroom and seen DS looking really ill and was horrified to find later that the headteacher who had been taking them hadn't sent him home
It makes me really worried about the residential they are going on with the HT in a couple of months

So children who are so ill they can't even hold their heads up are getting told off now? What if it was something more serious God forbid? Tell this person that she is responsible for the wellbeing of the children in her care while they're at school. Fuck sake

I'd expect a 9 yr old to say he felt unwell and I would tell him to let the teacher know next time.

I'm in the YANBU camp, actually; DC school are much more pro-active and aware than most of you are implying. They would definitely notice and probably inform me if DC were that off-colour.

I would expect them to tell me they are not well, if they are very unwell another DC usually tells me. As a supply teacher I err on the side of caution and send them to the office to see if they think a parent should be called. If you don't know the DC it is tricky-I have been told 'Lucy is always very pale'! You need to make sure that he knows to tell the teacher, in future.

I would expect that a Y4 child would tell someone he wasn't feeling well.

Re. not knowing child had been off or why - often only the main class teacher knows if they get the note themselves, often just secretary knows and records in register, if just a phone call. Even if we call we still have to take a note in.

Re. dinner - teacher wouldn't have seen him eating his lunch or not.

Re, untypical behaviour - she possibly just thought he was tired, many children do come to school tired like this. If I had noticed I would have asked a child "are you ok?" but would have to rely on the child telling me they were ill.

IMO your Ds needs reminding that he must inform a teacher if he feels ill. They don't always know otherwise.

Well..... our children are in their care for 6 hours (long enough to observe each child - even if there are 30)

They tell us they can't go outside when it is snowing - for their safety

There is a myriad of food that they can't have - for their health

Can't wear earrings - again health and safety

The list goes on.

So why on earth can't they see that a child is ill and send him home?

I would have a word.

have a word with the child you mean?

"They tell us they can't go outside when it is snowing - for their safety

There is a myriad of food that they can't have - for their health

Can't wear earrings - again health and safety"

None of these are down to individual teachers though.

I would expect a nine year old to be able to say if feeling unwell tbh. However, if he'd been in my class with his head down, I'd want to know why and not assume bad behaviour.

Haven't posted on here before but I think YAB a bit U. When I was Y3, many moons ago, I felt very off one day at school, couldn't keep still, achy etc. I also had an itchy back which I couldn't leave alone. I was repeatedly told off by my teacher (a substitute teacher admittedly) for messing about, not sitting still, being disruptive.

In the end she took me through to the teacher in the adjoining classroom to assist her investigating the mysterious itchy back (which involved them both lifting up my dress to have a look). Teacher in the adjoining classroom then informed my substitute teacher that I did, in fact, have shingles. And I was really ill for about a month.

The substitute teacher, dear reader, was my mother. AND it was not the first time that week I had complained about my itchy back.

With the best will in the world (and I would be upset if my child had struggled all day, ill, and their teacher hadn't even noticed) it can be easy to miss or misread a child being ill.

I still bring this up to my mother's deep shame (she is a wonderful mother, she honestly thought I was being disruptive and "playing her up").

I'd expect a child that age to tell the teacher if they were feeling unwell and if it were my DD I'd ask why she didn't.

I can't help but think that he sounds as if he appeared a clearly unwell child. I really would hope that my ds' teacher would notice and ring me if ds was like that. I wouldn't like to think that was asking too much!

I'd expect a child that age to tell the teacher if they were feeling unwell and if it were my DD I'd ask why she didn't

I don't know.When people are ill they generally just want to curl up in a corner and disappear ratherthan make a big fuss.

Well I think that I would probably have noticed, especially if he is normally a vibrant child. He should probably at year 4 have said something though. I would at least have expected that one of his friends might have told me. Oh and by the way Pixie, as teachers we are allowed to touch the pupils to see if they have a temperature. Appropriate touching is still ok.