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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

That Someone should demand white only staff when delivering a baby

140 replies

pigletmania · 13/01/2010 22:40

I was reading the local paper and it said that a lady demanded that white only staff deliver her baby at the local hospital min Milton Keynes, I am that someone could have that kind of attitude tbh, thought this kind of thing happened in the very distant past.

I am not a troll but a regular but just shock that someone can be so blatantly rascist.

OP posts:
Awassailinglookingforanswers · 14/01/2010 00:27

BooHoo - what about the BBC???

MNingatmidnight · 14/01/2010 00:33

awassailing - I noticed that and thought "hmmm how odd". At least yu didn't link to porn by accident, an accidental piano link is quite respectable!

Awassailinglookingforanswers · 14/01/2010 00:35

no porn wouldn't have been good LOL (it's a nice piano though isn't it )

BooHooMonkey · 14/01/2010 00:43

Sorry did I miss BBC link?just had my ears prick up at MK News.

spookycharlotte121 · 14/01/2010 00:50

lol well she would have loved it if she had had my delivery.
With ds i had a 3rd degree tear and so had thousands of people staring at my chuff.... every ethnic orrigin and back ground. I even had a group of french medicle students have a good look too!!!

Thinking about it there may have been a marsian lurking somewhere in the background too.
When you need medicle attention beggers cant be choosers and when I was in labour I was certainly in too much pain to think abaout anything as stupid as that. The midwife could have been dressed as mr blobby for all I cared... all I wanted was the bbay out of me and the pain gone!

some people are so bloody daaft!

YanknCock · 14/01/2010 00:50

Horrible, but I'm not surprised. I can totally see my racist SIL doing this.

FWIW, I had a horrible, cold, bullying midwife who was white and English. I finally got up the guts to complain and request someone else at 30 weeks.

SpeedyGonzalez · 14/01/2010 01:02

Well done Ihatetinselbob!

Right, Betablocker, here's your ton of bricks. Enough of the bullshit. Some black midwives can be horrible. Some black midwives (like the one I had) can be wonderful.

Some white midwives can be horrible. Some white midwives (like the other one I had) can be wonderful.

Etc, - same goes for midwives of all religions, Asian midwives, Jewish midwives, male midwives, gay midwives and midwives whose names begin with 'J'.

Your post tends towards the 'I'm not racist, but...' If you think colour is irrelevant here, why tell the story that way? You then say 'who knows if it's culture or bad luck?' I'll tell you who knows: stupid people think it's 'culture' (you actually mean 'colour', when you say "culture", don'tcha?). People with brains think otherwise. Of course it goes without saying that the midwives dealing with your sister should have done a far better job in every way, including not talking around her in a language she didn't understand. But that's exactly the point - she didn't understand them, so her guess about how they were viewing her was exactly that - a guess.

If someone is unpleasant it has nothing to do with their colour or creed. You shouldn't need me to tell you that. I am amazed that someone could be so utterly brainless as to suggest a person's colour or cultural background could be the ONLY factor that could possibly make a person unpleasant. Perhaps they were treated badly by their managers and their discontent was affecting their work - it shouldn't, but for all you know that could be the cause, couldn't it? Why bring up their bloody skin colour?

CarmenBeingDevilsAdvocate: "If she pays herself, then she can have whoever she wants imo." - again, bullshit. If someone's being discriminatory, they're being discriminatory, whether or not they're paying, and that should NOT be tolerated under ANY circumstances.

CarmenSanDiego · 14/01/2010 01:28

I entirely agree. There are nasty and nice people of all colours. I wouldn't assign any particular attributes to any particular race.

Is it really bullshit though to say if you are paying for a service (for example in a home birth), you can't discriminate?

You didn't answer my example. Would a Christian woman have a right to pick a Christian doula if she thought prayer would help during her birth? I think she should. And I wouldn't mind if that knocked me out of the running because I'd want her to have the birth she wants.

lanismum · 14/01/2010 01:32

If I had stated only white members of staff treated me at my hospital I would have a 4 year old still in utero I dont remember any white consultant, registrar, midwife, or surgeon treating me, but all 3 of my babies were delivered safely, thats all I gave a shit about!

ItsGraceAgain · 14/01/2010 03:50

Cornflakemum - What a frightening experience for you

I'm glad the patients, in the cases linked above, were found to be discriminatory. I'm also very cross that a flurry of these racially bigoted patients has managed to obscure the serious issue of nursing staff with poor English. Doesn't matter what colour they are, IMO, but if they can't communicate properly they shouldn't be in a caring profession!

eldestofthree · 14/01/2010 05:10

gasman I have asked a west indian midwife if "I could see another midwife".

I literally couldn't understand a word she said and used to come away from appointments wondering why I bothered to attend.

I put the request in those simple terms as I didn't want to offend her by telling her I couldn't understand. I expect she probably thought I was requesting the change because she was black. I wasn't.

seeker · 14/01/2010 05:14

WWhat speedygonzalez said!

And as for "In the US, patients interview doctors to choose the caregiver who suits them." - well, rich ones might!

mumbobumbo · 14/01/2010 06:24

Speedy... funny about midwives whose names begin with J. Mine was called Julie and looked exactly like Julie Andrews! She was awful from start to finish. Oh how I wish I had had the warm, friendly black midwife who I'd seen at all my appointments.

If a black woman wanted a black midwife, it would be seen as a reasonable request though, wouldn't it?

flimflammum · 14/01/2010 06:34

This thread is MN gold, isn't it? Giving birth and racism combined! It will run and run...

pippaNnippa · 14/01/2010 07:00

I had a horrid midwife who I swapped at 28 weeks (she was white and scottish) yet I wouldn't have any reservations about seeing another scottish midwife.

I do think it should be the same rule for everyone- nobody should be able to request based on creed or colour. The only exception for the rule would be in language cases- I would hope if a lady was in labour who didn't speak English and a midwife spoke her language we would do our best to give her that specific midwife if convienient
IYSWIM

newkiwi · 14/01/2010 07:26

I don't think paying for a service should allow you to discriminate.

I have a lot of overseas doctors as pals. They all come up against this kind of thing. Several have been physically threatened. One, working in A and E, had someone request a white doctor. He told him to try the next A and E. 45 minutes away.

babybarrister · 14/01/2010 07:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CarmenSanDiego · 14/01/2010 07:34

But say a woman wants an independent midwife. How can it be illegal for her to discriminate? Surely she'll pick the person she feels most comfortable with and clicks with (and websites usually have photos and biographies)?

Some women will look for a midwife who is very similar to themselves - age, gender, race. Some women may not be comfortable with a glamorous femme midwife. Some may not be comfortable with a butch one. Some may want an older woman. Some may want one their own age. Isn't it realistic if you have a choice to look for someone you think you will be comfortable with?

(And yes, I still think it is wrong and disgusting to discriminate on these matters within the NHS but I think lines are somewhat more blurred if you are having a home birth as it then becomes a much more personal encounter in your own home.)

CarmenSanDiego · 14/01/2010 07:38

And I'm serious about the Christian doula question. Some textbooks mention prayer as a coping mechanism for labour. Doesn't a woman have a right to pick a doula who would be willing to pray with her if she's hoping for a spiritual labour?

newkiwi · 14/01/2010 08:04

I think if you said to a private agency 'I want a white midwife' that is still racist and you could (and should) be prosecuted. It's different to picking someone you feel comfortable with.

Prinnie · 14/01/2010 08:14

Race wouldn't bother me in the slightest, but not understanding what they were saying would! I've saw a consultant this year and couldn't understand a word he was saying - to request an alternative health professional in that circumstance I think is ok.

Wonderstuff · 14/01/2010 08:15

I think Carmen that a doula is an 'extra' to birth, you should be able, in a straight forward birth, to bring whichever support partner you want. But it is probably unrealistic to pick and choose your midwife like this, especially on the NHS - the NHS could not run if it wasn't for foreign staff, we simply don't train enough people in this country. When you pick an independent midwife or a doula then you are actively picking a certain person rather than rejecting people, so it is different, but even with an independent midwife you may well need an obsetrition and will have to see a peadiatrion, maybe an anethesist too, you can't pick all these people!
mumbobumbo it would be equally unacceptable for a black woman to request only black staff attend her. This idea that its OK for non-whites to be racist is just silly.

DorotheaPlenticlew · 14/01/2010 08:18

I think wanting someone to pray with you is understandable (though I am not someone who prays, personally). But I don't think that hoping or asking for a doula who can support you in prayer is comparable to asking for a doula, mw or doctor who is not black -- doesn't matter if it's paying or NHS, that's still dodgy as fuck.

Sorry Carmen, I can see that you are trying to approach this in a rational manner as devils advocate; but there is a line there between acceptable and totally unacceptable.

I am listening as I type to a Radio 4 report on the Today programme -- not sure where it is as was too busy focusing on MN but it is harrowing as all hell, the reporter seems to be wandering through a sea of dead and dying screaming people and has just mentioned there is the body of a baby lying at his feet. Now interviewing a man who's explaining in broken English that "the bones came out of her legs ..." and crying. Oh, it's Port-au-Prince

Not meaning to go off topic too far, sorry. But it does make you think, fussing about having medical staff we are "comfortable" with is very much a privilege of the ridiculously effing lucky.

Bucharest · 14/01/2010 08:21
DorotheaPlenticlew · 14/01/2010 08:25

IhatetinselBob: loving your style. I wish I could think on my feet fast enough to come out with stuff like that when people are spouting crap -- I am always too gobsmacked.