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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to wonder if perhaps 'fat' is the new normal and society should just accept it.

74 replies

OrmIrian · 13/01/2010 16:05

Hasten to add that I don't mean obese and unfit, as clearly that isn't a good idea.

Our natural evolutionary propensity is to eat lots when it's available in order to have enough stored fat for the lean times. Clearly that is a problem in a world where food is freely available and more of an entertainment than mere nutrition. And where we don't need to move much to get from one place to another or get warm.

So, that being the case isn't it likely that this is a problem that isn't going to go away when it means fighting your own instincts.

Should we just concentrate on the exercise side of the equation - ie do move more and find something you like to do, rather than don't eat this and that. And change our aesthetic sense to accept the endomorph as just as beautiful as the ectomorph.

OP posts:
OrmIrian · 13/01/2010 21:15

Ah sally I suspect that the 4 miles walk to work counts as exercise. Not many people do that do they?

OP posts:
ArcticFox · 14/01/2010 07:35

I LOVE exercise and eating so I'm happy to do loads of both rather than little of one and none of the other.

I hate just going to the gym and sitting on the machines but really enjoy tennis, all day hikes with friends, running and cycling. A lot of my social life revolves around these activities so I don't see them as just something to work off excess calories.

Perceptions of attractiveness are tied up with those of wealth/ aspiration and always have been. That's why fat is seen as beautiful in countries where getting that way is hard!

HowManyTimesDoIHaveTo · 14/01/2010 08:04

same here arctic.

I couldn't eat little and do nothing.

sarah293 · 14/01/2010 08:32

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abra1d · 14/01/2010 11:55

Riven, that wheelchair through snow routine must make you the fittest on MN, I reckon.

sarah293 · 14/01/2010 12:12

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abra1d · 14/01/2010 12:13

But he would have needed 'supervision', which burns calories fast.

sarah293 · 14/01/2010 12:17

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HowManyTimesDoIHaveTo · 14/01/2010 13:06

galena - yes I share your feelings.But that is the point. There are so many threads on MN because it is a subject that everyone seems obsessesd about. Hence the thread. I just wonder if we are pushing at a locked door and it might be better to sneak round the back and get in through the window so to speak...

DavidTennantAteMyHeart · 14/01/2010 16:11

I'm far more interested in exercise and fitness than weight/BMI/slimness/thinness. I've never aspired to have a BMI of 20. Or even thought of aspiring to it. I don't think I'm that unusual. Most of my friends are very fit. I'm sure several have a BMI of 18-20. I'm a bit plumper but I've always been plump, even as a child when I definitely didn't over eat on crap and did lots of exercise.

I would feel too thin at BMI 20. I don't like it when my ribs stick out. IIRC that starts around BMI 22 for me.

MorrisZapp · 14/01/2010 16:18

Problem is that people tend to wildly overestimate the calorie burn of physical exercise.

You can knock your pan in down the gym, sweating and gasping for breath for an hour solid, and burn off the equivalent of half a chicken sandwich.

Walking each day is great for general fitness - I do lots of it and I love it - but it doesn't mean I can eat chips every day or that I have 'walked myself slim'.

When people 'walk off lunch' they're probably walking off one bit of dry toast, not a big stodgy meal.

Exercise is important for general health but diet is what you need to regulate for weight loss or maintainance.

DavidTennantAteMyHeart · 14/01/2010 16:29

I walk everywhere and do exercise. I eat the right things and don't like to be overweight. Fitness is far more important than weight alone. Things like walking up the stairs instead of taking a lift, getting off the bus a few stops earlier (or better still, walking all the way, in those long lost days when I had time!).

Far better to sit down and eat a proper balanced meal after an active day.

I find that the people I know who diet regularly are either thin to begin with and don't do enough exercise, or are those who zoom up and down from 9 stone to 12 stone every year or so.

Ronaldinhio · 14/01/2010 16:31

it is for me if I keep up with this creme egg obsession

muggglewump · 14/01/2010 16:53

I hate exercise, but I do a physical job 16 hours a week (three shifts) and don't own a car so I walk a lot.
I reckon that's a decent amount of exercise without needing to do any more.
I eat what I want but in moderation and am a size 8 at 5'2 so I'm happy with that.

FrozenNorth · 14/01/2010 17:10

All your responses are interesting and pretty refreshing to read.

My own perspective comes from the research I'm doing for my PhD. I work with children aged 7 to 11 and look at factors contributing to the eating and exercise habits they adopt, the body size they prefer for themselves and their perceptions of societal norms and preferences of body shape and size.

All this can help inform our understanding of restricting eating disorders and morbid obesity, to name just the dichotomous ends of the spectrum.

It seems that children rapidly learn to override biological cues of hunger and satiety, leading to cognitive control of food amount, food type and frequency of intake. Mostly this seems to be influenced by familial eating patterns and food buying habits. Some children learn to eat far more than they need, some to obsessively restrict their intake of 'bad' food (oh how I HATE the moralisation of food - sinful, bad, naughty etc.), some to use food as a way to manipulate their parents or find emotional satisfaction.

So how does this relate to the current issue? Well, what I notice is that a lot of children are just plain unhappy around food. By the age of 11 a sizeable minority also articulate an idea of eating / exercise being transactional activities where one can be used to compensate for another.

What should we be aiming for then, if not slimness as an ideal? Ideally we need to get better at listening to our internal hunger cues and relinquishing the cognitive control of hunger in favour of what our bodies are telling us we need. We need to step away from the punitive aspects of health promotion around body mass i.e. concentrate on helping people get to their own comfortable, fit set-point in weight and never mind the BMI charts.

If an emphasis on exercise can achieve this, all well and good. But still I worry that until we stop living in such an obesogenic environment - where crisps and chocolate are on 'three for two' but never apples, where fattening foods are imbued with mystical characteristics such as 'tempting' and 'wicked' and where children are generally born to parents who themselves have a less-than-easy relationship with food, we won't really get anywhere. We have to change the way we relate to and market food, rather than ignoring it in favour of exercise. We concurrently need to make moderate exercise as accessible and socially desirable as possible, of that I have no doubt, but our efforts in this sphere absolutely have to be two-tier because right now, as a nation and beyond, we have such a messed up relationship with food.

HowManyTimesDS · 14/01/2010 21:02

"concentrate on helping people get to their own comfortable, fit set-point in weight and never mind the BMI charts" QUite. And exercise is important in this no?

coveredinsnot · 14/01/2010 22:31

In evolutionary terms, attractiveness = sexy, healthy, fertile, able to bear and nurture children, etc. Generally, healthy and fertile people are not too fat and not too thin. So, I think fatness is not something we need to 'learn' to accept (how on earth would we override our core instincts completely and successfully?), but rather we need to learn how to adapt our ancient bodies to a modern way of life. Our minds and lifestyles have changed, but our bodies have not changed at the same rate and willing them to do so is pointless. So, get off your arse and do some exercise, and when you eat, try not to open too many packets!

Seasonofgoodwill · 14/01/2010 23:33

Is it any of society's business to decide what size any of us should be, or to accept/not accept people's size?

eagerbeagle · 15/01/2010 09:55

What season said.

HowManyTimesDS · 15/01/2010 10:18

Well season, whether it should be society's business or not, it seems to think it is.

thedollshouse · 15/01/2010 10:34

I would have thought that most "fat" people do not do enough exercise to ensure good health, those that do are most likely in the minority.

"Fat" isn't normal or common in every area. Where I live most of the women I know are very slim and it does put pressure on you to maintain a healthy weight as you don't want to be the fat one amongst your peer group. When I am shopping in the town where I grew up obese is definitely the norm there and it seems to be accepted.

When I was growing up my mum and older sisters were slightly overweight and I remember them going to ww and slimmers world, yo-yo dieting so that they could get back into a size 12. We all know that yo-yo dieting is not healthy but at least they were aware of their weight and did something about it when it crept up. Because being overweight has become the norm in this area not everyone seems that bothered about being overweight anymore. I have a young niece in her 20's who is 5 stone overweight but doesn't attempt to do anything to get the weight off. My sister found it really amusing that I asked dh to buy me wii fit for christmas and intend to join ww once the baby has arrived. My other niece who is a slim size 10 is considered vain because she goes to the gym.

HowManyTimesDS · 15/01/2010 11:20

thedollshouse - I put 'fat' in inverted commas in the title because I was meaning people who are fit and not obese but not as skinny as the ideal seems to be. And I think that is the way things will continue. So it might be better to accept that the mean size will remain bigger than 30 yrs ago but concentrate on health and fitness rather than size.

madhairingintothetens · 15/01/2010 11:43

I hate the way society imposes messages upon children about this whole issue too. ds said the other day 'I can't eat smarties, they're bad for me'. I asked where he'd heard that - at school. We've deliberately not talked about food as being 'bad'- think that is an unhealthy message. we talk more about how we should eat more of certain foods and less of others but can enjoy everyhing in moderation. Yet however much we promote a healthy attitude it goes wrong as soon as a dinner lady tells a dc their lunchbox is 'bad'. I let my dc have crisps on a friday - they have been told they are unhealthy. And yet the school lunches served include big stodgy chocolate sponge puddings.
On top of that dd (9) has recently been saying she needs to put weight on. I asked her why she thought that, and it's a combination of kids at school telling her she's too skinny and the bloody wii fit telling her to put weight on. I tell her to take no notice. She eats like a horse and is naturally very energetic. She's tall and slim - it's her build. But now she's getting a wonky body image, at 9. It makes me sad.

madhairingintothetens · 15/01/2010 11:44

Sorry op, that was nothing to do with the original question. Off on a rant

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