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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that anyone taking a small child onto the middle of a frozen lake

74 replies

Reluctant1stimer · 11/01/2010 20:42

Should face charges of some kind?
The front of my local newspaper today showed a photo of a couple far far out on the ice with a very small child or baby in a back carrier! They were so far out in fact that the paper had the photo blown up so you could make out this poor child because the distance shot was too far away. I am gobsmacked.

OP posts:
itchyandscratchy · 11/01/2010 21:21

OP - was the front page photo there as a warning to people who think it's ok to walk on frozen lakes? Because imho it should have been.

Our local paper runs pictures every heatwave of idiots jumping off our city bridge into the river - always with a warning quote from the police saying how stupid this is.

Paolosgirl · 11/01/2010 21:22

Yes, but the Victorians also sent children up chimneys and thought it impossible for women to have the sufficient level of intelligence required to vote or go to university. I'm not sure that we should always hold up the Victorian era as one to aspire to

AvrilH · 11/01/2010 21:23

Yep, lake Monteith, as featured in a previous thread is one

My local park's ornamental lake is another. It is no more than three feet deep at any point. Baby in backpack would get wet feet, in the incredibly unlikely event of a parent somehow falling through ice that has had men playing football on it for weeks.

edam · 11/01/2010 21:24

really odd to leap on the OP when she was clearly talking about the UK, not Austria or Switzerland, or a lake in the Highlands that is known locally to be fine for curling...

Paolosgirl · 11/01/2010 21:24

MmeLindt - the Angus Police stopped the curling mass tournament that had been planned as they could not guarantee public safety at that point.

Paolosgirl · 11/01/2010 21:25

Mass curling I mean

coleslaw · 11/01/2010 21:27

I think they are completely irresponsible too. If they want to kill themselves then its their lookout, but they have a child with them. Plus, if they get into difficulties, then they are putting the lives of those that try to rescue them at risk , too. Furthermore it means that vital services are then taken away from those people who need them (ie poorly and elderly people). STUPID !!!

PacificDogwood · 11/01/2010 21:31

Sorry, not having a go at the OP at all - just trying to lighten the tone.

FWIW, the behaviour of that couple on the linked photo with baby in backpack looks quite bonkers!
Whether legal prosecution would make a differenc to deter people... ? Not sure.

I am with Morloth re Darwin Awards .

MmeLindt · 11/01/2010 21:31

Edam
Where did the OP get leapt on? She offered no details to where the lake was or the fact that there were clear cracks in the ice. I was not rude, just asked for clarification.

AvrilH · 11/01/2010 21:37

It is, at best, AIBU by stealth, we now know it is 70ft deep, but not where it is.

The parents were in a better position to assess the risk

skidoodle · 11/01/2010 21:39

PMSL at the utter failure of reason here.

opening contention - it is foolhardy to walk on frozen lakes in the UK

counter argument - but people do it in other countries where it is much colder, for much longer, where people are used to the conditions and where arrangements are made for use of frozen lakes

Uh, OK.

You can go out for a nice stroll along Camber Sands in April with no preparation and just a light jacket. That doesn't mean you would be safe to do the same thing in the Sahara desert, even though you might have sun and sand in both locations.

OP - no of course people shouldn't face charges for doing this. The presence of a child doesn't give those in authority a free pass to start meddling with people's freely chosen stupidity.

MmeLindt · 11/01/2010 21:41

Ok, leave Switzerland/Austria out of it but last time I looked, Scotland was part of the UK.

Original poster
Reluctant1stimer · 11/01/2010 21:42

MmeLindt you are quite right, I should have put the photo in my OP.

I find I am over emotional since having DS and this pic horrified me. I don't care if people want to risk their own lives but to do this with a baby or risk the lives of whoever might be called upon to rescue such people is just not fair in my opinion.

OP posts:
Original poster
Reluctant1stimer · 11/01/2010 21:46

It's Cumbria by the way, Derwentwater and skating/walking on lakes here is not usual as far as I know.

OP posts:
MmeLindt · 11/01/2010 21:49

No wonder you were horrified, the pic is pretty heartstopping.

I find that I get more upset about news like this now than before I had DC. For a while there I could not turn on the news as I was getting too upset. YANBU to be shocked.

Do you know if they caught up with the couple in that pic?

wb · 11/01/2010 21:57

Well actually in a way I think it does. A child is not a possession and I don't think anybody should gratuitously risk the life of another and vulnerable individual - parents or not. If it is not OK to put your kids in a car with no seat belt, or leave babies at home asleep whilst you pop to the shops why is it OK to take them onto the ice to see if it will bear your weight?

mowcop · 11/01/2010 21:57

there was a similar clip on tv today on the news, a chap was on a lake pushing a buggy! I looked at my DH and said "please tell me I didn't just see that" I think if you want to put your life at risk, then feel free, but don't include a helpless toddler strapped in a buggy! This whole topic is really a positive argument for selective breeding.

lowenergylightbulb · 11/01/2010 22:21

They were walking on derwent water? Feckin' hell.

YANBU.

SockEatersMummy · 11/01/2010 22:40

In a similar vain, last week there was a newspaper article about a couple going up Snowdon in heavy snow with what looked like a 2 year old in a back carrier. Just demented.

Apparently, they managed about a mile in 4 hours or something and had to turn around.

Like mountain rescue would have nothing better to do than rescue them in a blizzard cos they'd been twerps.

Makes me so annoyed that people take stupid risks on behalf of their DC.

Sorry, rant over

Original poster
Reluctant1stimer · 11/01/2010 23:05

There was no mention in the paper of whether they had been told off or caught up with but lots of warnings not to do this. The police were out with loud speakers trying to get people off the lakes. There where even kids on bikes!

OP posts:
tigerbear · 11/01/2010 23:42

I agree with the OP - I saw this at the weekend at Hampstead Heath in London. A father was standing at the edge of the lake watching his son - aged about 7 - wander into the middle of it. He was also standing in front of the 'Danger - ice kills - please keep off' sign. Utterly stupid.

madwomanintheattic · 11/01/2010 23:50

we took dd1 up snowdon in the snow when she was 3 months old. we took her up in the train though, we just walked down in the blizzard lol. she was in a front carrier (baby bjorn lol) inside dh's jacket... she's 10 this month.

last week we were all walking/ skating on a lake too (but yes, yes, abroad etc)

wouldn't go on a lake in the uk though. bit nuts.

skidoodle · 12/01/2010 08:27

wb well if we go along with that way of thinking (quite popular amongst the "won't somebody please think of the children" set, and this government) then children effectively belong to the state and parents just get to look after them as long as they follow the rules.

I think what these people did was fucking stupid. But I also think that as citizens of a supposedly free country that they get to assess their own risks, for themselves and their family.

I do not want to live in a world where people can be prosecuted for decisions that other people deem unsafe. And I don't want child safety to become the means by which this is justified (as it so often is).

Every decision a parent makes could lead to harm for their child. We can't do anything to change that. Nor should we.

Tee2072 · 12/01/2010 08:35

I guess you could arrest them for child endangerment? But it might be hard to prove, even with the cracks in the ice.

I skated on frozen ponds in my youth. But, as has been mentioned, this was after the temp had been below freezing for weeks and the ice was monitored. Not just on random lakes. And not in the UK!

cory · 12/01/2010 08:39

Some of us do actually know about things like ice and water. In fact, I am continually surprised by the fact that the British know so little about the natural world they live in, but it doesn't have to apply to everyone. Some people have been taught abroad (I was taught about ice safety in primary school), others have read up on the subject. Some, in Scotland for instance, no doubt know the conditions (currents, depths etc) of their local waters. Surely it is only irresponsible if you don't know what you're doing? Same goes for taking a toddler out in the snow.

Or do you think all Scandinavians are the unfortunate result of failure in the selective breeding? They have been having very similar temperatures to northern England, no colder, and they take their children skating on those lakes which they know to be safe.

Taking a child across a properly frozen lake (temperatures below freezing for a long period, no open water, no cracks, no current, not near any bridge or other feature) has got to be a lot less dangerous than getting the same baby in a car or taking it across a busy road. We all know that babies get killed every year in their parents' cars. Irresponsible? It doesn't have quite the same news value.

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