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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think you shouldn't live in HA/council house and then buy an "investment property"

59 replies

humptynumpty · 09/01/2010 22:24

Am totally at friend who has suggested we buy an investment property. Fair enough, is a great idea, but we live in a housing association property and somehow doesn't feel right to buy your own house, rent it out and make money, while keeping your housing association property too.
AIBU?

OP posts:
junglist1 · 09/01/2010 23:18

I lived in one poxy room with a newborn and a 3 year old for 5 SODDING years because of wankers like her. She hasn't got a clue what that does to people, caged up like that, sharing a toilet with all sorts. I hope she finds out one day

MillyR · 09/01/2010 23:19

I think the rules are pretty complex. Not everyone who gets a HA property will be claiming benefits.

Someone may own a tiny studio flat but have 4 kids and so need a HA property, and get housing list points because of overcrowding.

Some HA properties are part owned, part rented, so are not allocated on the basis of position on the housing list.

Surely if you are allocated a house, and then a partner moves in (who has a property), there is no reason for you to lose your house. It is not a false claim if you are not on benefits.

There are loads of new build part ownership HA flats by us that are stood empty, because nobody can afford to buy at the moment. I should think the rules on who can buy them are going to be very relaxed.

skidoodle · 09/01/2010 23:22

"Does that mean that if they buy another property in a different area, rent it out to give them somewhere to move to in their dotage it should not be allowed?"

Yes. They can spend their dotage in Wandsworth. Why would they need to move?

The last thing the country needs is taxpayers subsidising any more property "ladder" foolishness.

ImSoNotTelling · 09/01/2010 23:24

Yes milly the people I know in HA round here are not on benefits and part own the properties.

brettgirl2 · 09/01/2010 23:28

They wouldn't need to move but surely if they have security then that is beneficial to both them and the taxpayer?

Surely we want people to be able to support themselves in the long run?

MillyR · 09/01/2010 23:28

I don't understand this Preston thing. If they sell the house or don't selll the house, they can't afford to buy a house in Wandsworth, so will need to rent. As people who cannot afford to buy a house, they will be entitled to HA accommodation.

The best option would be for them to move into shared ownerships HA housing which they could afford from selling the Preston house.

But they will still be using up a HA house.

I believe there should be a lot more HA properties available, and they should not be just for people in a state of utter destitution. Sorting out housing should be a priority.

MiladyDeWinter · 09/01/2010 23:29

Jesus - does that happen honestly?

DH works and we pay full rent for our HA house.

DS is in a cot in our room and disturbs us for several hours several times each night but there has been no suggestion of a house with a small third room.

We have been to the doctors several times saying that it is killing us. To no avail. Dr says that DS obviously needs only 4 hours sleep like Mrs Thatcher! Which is good. Great even. If you want to raise a psychopathic dictator.

Original poster
humptynumpty · 09/01/2010 23:30

I guess every situation is different. I do think if you have a 2 bed HA flat and your partner has a 2 bed HA flat, then one of you should give their flat up. In this particular circumstance they use one flat like a sort of holiday home when they want a break and the rest of the time it's lying empty while he continues to claim housing benefit.
Like i said, it makes me sick people cheating the system when there are others who are in need who are losing out, and if you are going to cheat, don't show off about it, count yourself lucky and keep quiet!

OP posts:
brettgirl2 · 09/01/2010 23:33

Well obviously yes, if you can get an affordable shared ownership house.

I was under the impression though that this thread is about people renting HA property because of the references to 'giving it up'

BlackLetterDay · 09/01/2010 23:36

Not sure about HA but when we first applied for a council house when I was pregnant with dd I'm pretty sure they asked you to declare any assets/savings above a certain level (£20,000 rings a bell). They deffo asked about any property that you owned etc. Obviously it would be quite easy to lie really plus there are no checks once you are on the list/have a property.

I am a council tenant but would welcome periodic checks to entitlement tbh. There are so many people waiting for housing that it's not fair really. If ever I was in a position to buy my own house I bloody well would (can't see it ever happening but you never know).

MillyR · 09/01/2010 23:37

Brettgirl, I was actually agreeing with you. I cannot see how it benefits the taxpayer or anyone else waiting for a HA property for them to sell the house if they cannot afford to buy a house in Wandsworth.

chegirlsgotheartburn · 09/01/2010 23:39

My SIL was kicked out of her house by her XH. She was living with her three children in B&B but because the house was partly in her name she was not able to be housed by LA.

So that would imply (and its what I have always understood about social housing) that you cannot own a property and be housed by the council etc.

Using an overstretched HA/LA to provide you with a convienient flat whilst you keep your nice place in the county is NOT the point of social housing.

MillyR · 09/01/2010 23:43

No, Che that is to do with who resides in a house until it is sold when a relationship ends. Either the woman, or the council on her behalf if they are housing the children, should go to court to remove the abusive ex from the house so that the person who has the children remains in the property until it is sold. If the ex is not abusive then both adults should remain in the property until it is sold. A woman walking out of a non-abusive relationship in shared ownership property before the house sale is legally intentionally homeless so will not go to the top of the housing list.

Missus84 · 09/01/2010 23:45

It's tough getting a HA property - if you already own a property you'll be right at the bottom of the list (well, you'll have very few points is how it's done these days). But once you have a HA property, if your circumstances improve then it won't affect your tenancy.

I do agree with that - your tenancy shouldn't be affected if your circumstances improve, otherwise there's no incentive to do well for yourself, it breaks up communities, you shouldn't risk losing your home.

Buying a property while a HA tenant though is taking the piss - as is a couple having two HA properties.

Original poster
humptynumpty · 10/01/2010 00:06

thank you missus

OP posts:
Ronaldinhio · 10/01/2010 00:15

a woman I worked with did this and sub let her HA property
couldn't see why it was in anyway wrong

Hando · 10/01/2010 00:16

As someone currently waiting for a HA property I have to disagree with those who say you shouldn't have to move out if your circumstances greatly improve.

I was made homeless and have lived in a tiny 1 bed, scummy flat for 2 yrs. I was working p/t and am now about to start a new job which is quite well paid.

My Dp owns his own house, but I am still entitled to a HA place, and why shouldn't I be. I do not want to live with my DP at the moment, so would have nowhere to live otherwise.

However, once we decide to move in together we will buy or rent together and give back the HA property that I have been living in.

There is such a shortage of HA properties and a long wait and so many families living like rats in shite mouldy little temporary flat thats I really do think people should move once they can afford to. So what if they have to move and make a new home? HA properties should be there for those that need them and once you no longer need them then they have to be passed back into the system.

Hando · 10/01/2010 00:19

Oh and don't get me started on letting people buy their HA properties!!! Fair enough if the HA are providing alternative places to replace them, but they aren't. HA properties should only be until you no longer need the help.

Missus84 · 10/01/2010 00:26

The big problem is there aren't enough HA properties - they should never have been sold off, and more need to be build.

MillyR · 10/01/2010 00:32

Hando, the whole point of HA properties is that they are not temporary. If everyone housed by the HAs is only put into housing until their circumstances improve, there is no point having having HAs at all. Everyone could be housed in private accommodation through bond schemes.

MsSpentYoof · 10/01/2010 01:05

I have to live in my cold, drafty rented house with rotten floorboards and windows because of selfish cows like the OP's friend.

I can't afford to move to a different PR house and have a DS with a heart condition, I dread when he has to have his next op and I have to bring him back to a freezing cold house.

Donna81 · 10/01/2010 01:36

I think its awful. I live in a cold, damp HA flat with my 2 children, I work and can't afford to buy or private rent. Our only option is to wait for a larger property which is likely to take years. There are over 1000 families wating in our area. If I was to get a better job etc I would expect to have to give up my accommodation.
Also I Agree social housing should not be sold off - there isn't enough of it in the first place!

ItsGraceAgain · 10/01/2010 04:21

YANBU

But lots of other people do it, the selfish, immoral, greedy, anti-social arsewipes.

So I guess it's a matter of social responsibility vs quick buck. I hope somebody dobs them in for what must be a breach of contract. If it isn't, I'd be tempted to alert the HA to such abuses of their service [nasty devil emoticon]

MumsieNonna · 10/01/2010 10:08

YANBU
God these greedy people make my blood boil. Thoughtless, selfish, arrogant twats! As a tenant in crap and expensive housing we have been waiting years for a HA flat to come up.

As ItsGrace says I hope someone dobs them.

PeachyWillNeverVoteBNP · 10/01/2010 10:29

Making people move out if their sits imrove could cause a whole new set of issues I think- ap[art from all the debated before stuff on MN,someone who reaches say a good pay levellater inlife is lesslikely to have a pension set aside or timefor amortgage so will just end up back on the HA list five years down the line 9this would ahve happened topeople in my family). Wouldn't this cost mroe than the obvious if needing a completereworking option of building mroe homes?

Do we want a sociaty where anyone is stuck ion crap hosuing no matter if they are fasmillies or older people who ahve retired and found themselves on pension and associated credits?

Income from rented housing is taken into account when assesing HB isn't it?So it does ahve a great bearing on whether someone gets that- so i think its a dual argument here,aprtly fromconfusion that people in HA / council housing is restricted to HB claimants.

Saying that I think there is amoral responsibility to help yourself asmuch as you can, but if the rent you get on your unsuitable flat prevents you fromclaiming HB for the HA house then its still benefitting the UK as a whole isn't it?

Shared ownership housing is completely different (someone did mention that)- we used to have one and we ahd paid the mortgage on half so we didnt feel we had a responsibility to move on tbh, we'd have happily agreed to buy the other half if we oculd (though ours was of the type where you could not do that- you get stepped and non stepped agreements).